Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

If it doesnt matter that volks are superior pre upgrade and vet3 in teamgames, it wont matter that volks are inferior after vet3 and upgrade. You could go Kubel spam into Jagdtiger in 4vs4 and have a decent chance of winning. More teammates = less dependend on the power of your units. Pfussies or Volks is just a flavor pick there.

That being said Pfussies shouldnt have a weapon slot after g43 upgrade. They get 3 g43 and 1 extra member. Thats enough.

and they still lose to penal while paying more MP and munition, seems a bit contradictory for the price tag

290 vs 295+90 mun

2 free slot and upgrade viable vs 0 slot

make no sense really

Firstly, thank you for the fix on 280mm Rocket Barrage.

Radio Silence

Duration from 40 to 55

The question is not the duration. It is the cost. If the changes in beta were implemented, this commander would require even more munitions. If I wanted to utilize the Sturm Offizier effectively, I had to use his abilities very often, which costs munitions. So where could I find more munitions to use Radio Silence at a 70 cost?

My suggestion: (All compared to live build)
Duration from 60 to 45
Cost from 40 to 55

and they still lose to penal while paying more MP and munition, seems a bit contradictory for the price tag

290 vs 295+90 mun

2 free slot and upgrade viable vs 0 slot

make no sense really

Once vet starts racking up fussies are far better than penals due to the increased sight and especially the nade enabling them to tip engagements. Burst damage is nothing to scoff at. 290mp for a purely combat unit vs 295 for a utility packed unit (vision, flare and snare) that can fight the aforementioned 290mp unit is pretty good. You don't get nothing for the 90mu. You get a lot actually...

Also there's no tech requirement for fussies to start rolling out, unlike penals meaning faster map control. Also fussies get 15% faster cap rate and sprint with vet, meaning even more map control and superior positioning.

What you lose at the start you gain with vet.

Fussies also are one of the 3 axis units in the entire game that negate the snowballing of soviet infantry via fire concentration - equal models means more even damage distribution and less chance of models bursting down.

Hell, the fact that were even comparing fussies and penals when penals single job is brute force, support less AI speaks volumes for fussies.....

Penals are DESIGNED to be strong at the start, fussies are designed to be WEAK at the start... Mid game they level out and late game fussies are superior.

You guys do realize that Fusiliers have an extra weapon slot currently in the Test Patch right. The G43 only takes up 1 spot currently and they can pick up another weapon. They pretty much just reverted Fusiliers to how they are on the live patch currently. If the G43's take up both slots I don't believe that is intended as the most recent patch notes stated they were reverting all changing to make Fusiliers the same as how they are in the live game.

and they still lose to penal while paying more MP and munition, seems a bit contradictory for the price tag

290 vs 295+90 mun

2 free slot and upgrade viable vs 0 slot

make no sense really

You forgot about shitload of abilities for AT, AI and scouting vs a whooping fuck all+need of upfront investment+having to carry whole tier on their backs without support from ATGs or HMGs, both of which PFs enjoy without any issue.
PFs price comes from utility you get.
If they didn't had nades, at nades, flare, additional sight post upgrade then yeah, they would need to be cheaper/perform better for the cost.

Stop pretending PFs and penals have exact same army composition behind them and have equal amount of combat utility, because they clearly don't and again, they don't compete against penals for pop, they compete with volks, compare their performance and upgrades to volks, not penals.

Once again, its irrelevant what penals do, because OKW can't build penals.

Stop ignoring context of the army and unit PFs compete with in that army.

You guys do realize that Fusiliers have an extra weapon slot currently in the Test Patch right. The G43 only takes up 1 spot currently and they can pick up another weapon. They pretty much just reverted Fusiliers to how they are on the live patch currently. If the G43's take up both slots I don't believe that is intended as the most recent patch notes stated they were reverting all changing to make Fusiliers the same as how they are in the live game.

When I checked the upgrade took both weapon slots and they could not pick up an lmg.

When I checked the upgrade took both weapon slots and they could not pick up an lmg.

Then I think the current version is bugged, I know they can't be reinforced for some reason.

Since the Panzerfusiliers performances are being discussed: I just tested max vet 6 panzerfusiliers against 6 riflemen with 1 bar at 30 and 35 range.
At 35 range PF have a slight advantage, at 30 Riflemen win.

Also I don't see why a supposed mainline replacement should get flares. Sturm Offizier should have this ability.

Once vet starts racking up fussies are far better than penals due to the increased sight and especially the nade enabling them to tip engagements. Burst damage is nothing to scoff at. 290mp for a purely combat unit vs 295 for a utility packed unit (vision, flare and snare) that can fight the aforementioned 290mp unit is pretty good. You don't get nothing for the 90mu. You get a lot actually...

Also there's no tech requirement for fussies to start rolling out, unlike penals meaning faster map control. Also fussies get 15% faster cap rate and sprint with vet, meaning even more map control and superior positioning.

What you lose at the start you gain with vet.

Fussies also are one of the 3 axis units in the entire game that negate the snowballing of soviet infantry via fire concentration - equal models means more even damage distribution and less chance of models bursting down.

Hell, the fact that were even comparing fussies and penals when penals single job is brute force, support less AI speaks volumes for fussies.....

Penals are DESIGNED to be strong at the start, fussies are designed to be WEAK at the start... Mid game they level out and late game fussies are superior.

mhh did u actaly see the previous post where vet 5 PF lose to penals vet3 ?

and u did not edxpalin why they should have no weapon slot especially when u said
fussies are designed to be WEAK at the start... Mid game they level out and late game fussies are superior.
so isn't that against your point ?

fussies are designed to be WEAK at the start... Mid game they level out and late game fussies are superior.
so isn't that against your point ?

To volks.
They are designed to be weaker then VOLKS, not rifles, not penals, not tommies.
Mid and late game they are designed to be superior TO VOLKS, not rifles, not penals, not tommies.
They compete for a spot in the BO with VOLKS, not rifles, not penals, not tommies.
They are alternative to VOLKS, not rifles, not penals, not tommies.

To volks.
They are designed to be weaker then VOLKS, not rifles, not penals, not tommies.
Mid and late game they are designed to be superior TO VOLKS, not rifles, not penals, not tommies.
They compete for a spot in the BO with VOLKS, not rifles, not penals, not tommies.

dude i fucking copy pasted his quote, are u blind ?

Penals are DESIGNED to be strong at the start, fussies are designed to be WEAK at the start... Mid game they level out and late game fussies are superior.

kat by new glasses

it's like u cherry pick literally everything

dude i fucking copy pasted his quote, are u blind ?

Penals are DESIGNED to be strong at the start, fussies are designed to be WEAK at the start... Mid game they level out and late game fussies are superior.

kat by new glasses

And that changes what I've said how?

Vs penals, the sole fact they have AI and AT nades makes them superior.

And that changes what I've said how?

discuss with him , kat are u serious do u discuss with someone who quoted something or the one that actually wrote the quote ?



is he your buddy and you can't talk with him ?

discuss with him , kat are u serious do u discuss with someone who quoted something or the one that actually wrote the quote ?



is he your buddy and you can't talk with him ?

I think you both are confused enough by comparing them to penals.
They share some similarities with penals, they are not supposed to be OKW penals and they will never have raw firepower of penals, because contrary to penals, PFs provide shitload of additional utilities.

mhh did u actaly see the previous post where vet 5 PF lose to penals vet3 ?

and u did not edxpalin why they should have no weapon slot especially when u said
fussies are designed to be WEAK at the start... Mid game they level out and late game fussies are superior.
so isn't that against your point ?

Did... You not read where I said that all penals do is fight but fussies can do more than that? Or how fussies are great for map control? Or how they have a grenade that can tip engagements that are not unrealistic set and forget battles at max range? That they have sprint so they can get preffered positioning?

If we ignore all the strengths of fussies and pit them against a unit who's only job is to kill shit yes they lose.
Perhaps you can run some tests about how quickly each squad can cap the whole map? Or how well they can recon enemy positions? Or how much the get bullied by LVs?

No you won't, because you are intentionally creating biased tests to suit your needs and ignoring the other traits that go into making and pricing a squad.

yes but we are not talking about increasing fire power, we are talking about weapon slot and the upgrade itself

the mod team

Panzerfusiliers
Due to the power of Panzerfusiliers with 3 G43 rifles, the unit does not need to be able to pick-up additional weaponry when upgraded.

G43s now take two weapon slots.

as shown in testes the fire power of the 3 g43 rifle does not warrant 2 weapon slot,

if u want i can compare them to rifle bar but really it changes nothing to the point im making

the g43 upgrade is not worth 2 weapon slot

and if we go by your logic than a lot of weapons should be worth more than 1 weapon slot

the g43 upgrade is not worth 2 weapon slot

Then cons 7 man upgrade is not worth weapon slot either as it adds much less in comparison.

G43 adds:
DPS, sight, another entity, ability to effectively fight on the move.

It adds plenty enough to be worth 2 weapon slots.

PF without the G43 upgrade are completely UP and not worth 270 manpower there are not even worth 250 manpower.

The upgrade is simply to expensive and reduces the MU available to use the advertised abilities PF have like grenades and flares.

Actually one has to choose if he will upgrade with G43 his PF or use the grenades/flare and be stuck with an UP unit.

Worth noting is that flares are not related to G43s but are vet ability.

the 7 men upgrade adds 1 more rifle 1 more model reduced reinforce cost and time,reduced vet requirement and cost 50 mun+ 18mp cost 1 weapon slot

the recon packages, adds 1 g 43 rifle and REPLACES 2 normal rifle for g 43, adds 1 man and increase sight range by 5 costs 90 mun and 25 mp cost 2 weapon slots

just so u understand before the "REWORK" of the PF the upgrade did not add 1 more man as the squad was 6 men , they cut down the 6th man cause too op 6 men sherck tank hunter would dominate in the mod team mind and the upgrade was 0 weapon slots

the whole point of the rework

Panzerfusilliers

The way Panzerfusiliers are deployed has been changed to better match their role as an alternative mainline infantry to Volksgrenadiers. They will be slightly weaker than Volksgrenadiers at the start but have access to the Anti-Tank Rifle Grenades, slightly better combat veterancy, and more powerful upgrades, giving them increased power in the late game. This should make for interesting choices and compositions.

the upgrade was always to mind the reduced squad number cause of the Shrek

the team team even said it in the this forum that the cut squad member was the only solution to let them have both upgrades without being op and even then they added a weapon slot from 0 to 1

u really want them to have no slot ? ok just cut the cost to 40-50 mun and reduce to reinforce cost of the squad itself

at this point just return them before the rework and put them at 1 cp like recon section

We are reverting the changes to Panzerfusiliers to prevent them from completely overshadowing Volksgrenadiers, particularly in team games.

Really genius creating mainline replacement unit, but at the same time not wanting them to overshadow standart mainline.

Dont make them mainline replacer in the first place then?

Make them into some sort of OKW grenadiers version or supporting squad, like pathfinders.
Ppl will still use them as a mainline replacer in a teamgames (because its more forgiving) and in smaller gamemodes they will still suck ass with this current aproach.

What the point of thouse back and forth changes, if you are unable to finnaly decide the role and place of the unit.