Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

It's 40 just for the sight and flare
Because upgrades NECESSARY to make units function their intended role are free, see infiltration unit upgrades.

What? They do that for infiltration units just to keep them from spawning and immediately wiping things (as they used to do all the time). Hence the cooldown on their nades as well

That has nothing to do with fusiliers

You are perfectly right, we should rebalance KV1 to have the same cost but starts as a worse t-34/76, and maybe at vet 3 it gets marginally better

Your analogy is as accurate as B-4 on max range shooting into FoW.

What? They do that for infiltration units just to keep them from spawning and immediately wiping things. Hence the cooldown on their nades as well

That has nothing to do with fusiliers

No, wrong again, they also do that with tech locked upgrades like fg42, but that's besides the point.
There's no reason for Panzerfusiliers to be this overpriced, not at all.

Your analogy is as accurate as B-4 on max range shooting into FoW.

You are right, KV1 doesn't require a relatively expensive munition upgrade to work which gets outdone by a single bar, but close enough

You are right, KV1 doesn't require a relatively expensive munition upgrade to work which gets outdone by a single bar, but close enough

Ok.
If rifles are so much better, then just build rifles instead.

well if u don't see it as a nerf then you don't mind removing it from all non usf and ukf squad ? since it's not a nerf i mean they don't need it too, u would not see such a thing as a nerf right ?

I do not understand what you're trying to say here

ok then let's talk about the whole squad + upgrade
the squad cost 270 mp from the start and 25 mp to reinforce for worse performance than cons

Worse AI performance. They start with a snare which is a big deal for okw (carrier/SC can spank them)

https://imgur.com/a/i2jy19E
yea saying spam was not right but can you still show some replay in which u use PF as meta, as u said they are very popular and meta and replace volks so u must have some right ?

If I could do it without breaking my privacy I would. Just like you I hide my playercard and don't post replays (of myself)

It is a fact that breakthrough is one of the most popular commanders in team games. Obviously JT is a big part of that, but fusiliers are too. The early game weakness is much easier to overcome when you have teammates

Dude I'll fully admit I never use them in 1v1. Seems like a bad idea. But there are a lot of things in the game you can't use 1v1 that are totally viable in team games

Dude I literally do not understand what you're trying to say

what i mean is that it a nerf does not matter how you spin, more specifically a nerf to ultra late game firepower or utility or worse letting an opponent steal a weapon since you can't pick it up

Worse AI performance. They start with a snare which is a big deal for okw (carrier/SC can spank them)

yes that would make sense if they only costed the same, the argument would make sense since you are trading utility for firepower but they cost more, so it's obvious there's gonna be a bonus to it right ? or is the fact that they use a cross instead of star means they cost more for no reason ?

If I could do it without breaking my privacy I would. Just like you I hide my playercard and don't post replays (of myself)

It is a fact that breakthrough is one of the most popular commanders in team games. Obviously JT is a big part of that, but fusiliers are too. The early game weakness is much easier to overcome when you have teammates

Dude I'll fully admit I never use them in 1v1. Seems like a bad idea. But there are a lot of things in the game you can't use 1v1 that are totally viable in team games

well if u want u could just upload a video and cut your name /add a black bar on your name

or u could do just like and use math and test in game

u need to show something people are not gonna believe you just cause

in the link u can see the test result

and i get your point that they are popular in team game but are they OP or just overused cause they fill a better role than volks late game ?

i mean u saw the result, they are pitiful

rifle 1 bar beat Pf and PF beat volks

if what u want is basically have no viable inf for okw, ok just expect more people to leave the game once they get bored by waiting in queue cause no one is playing the other factions so they can't fulfill their stomp fantasy

It is a fact that breakthrough is one of the most popular commanders in team games. Obviously JT is a big part of that, but fusiliers are too. The early game weakness is much easier to overcome when you have teammates

Dude I'll fully admit I never use them in 1v1. Seems like a bad idea. But there are a lot of things in the game you can't use 1v1 that are totally viable in team games

You can even get away with x4 Kubels in team games, so from a game balance stand point PFusiliers being that horrid in 1v1s is not a good thing in my opinion. The unit is only useful when you are up against a Brit with UC and really nothing else especially on maps with a lot of red cover and no cover at all.

Edit : It can also be argued how much more utility does the Pfusiliers bring in compared to already VERY versatile Volksgrenadier.

You are still missing the point, which is important, while in 1v1 they are shit, they can be considered OP in teamgames, because of G43 and the nature of teamgames.
And the single reason why they are OP in teamgames, because they are shit 1v1, in other words G43 grade makes up for the fact that they start as a total garabge.

You are still missing the point, which is important, while in 1v1 they are shit, they can be considered OP in teamgames, because of G43 and the nature of teamgames.
And the single reason why they are OP in teamgames, because they are shit 1v1, in other words G43 grade makes up for the fact that they start as a total garabge.

even with g 43 they still lose the bar rifle (1 bar) https://imgur.com/a/fjl0Lto

and i get your point that they are popular in team game but are they OP or just overused cause they fill a better role than volks late game ?

I didn't say they are OP...

if what u want is basically have no viable inf for okw, ok just expect more people to leave the game once they get bored by waiting in queue cause no one is playing the other factions so they can't fulfill their stomp fantasy

How many fucking times do I have to say that volks need help? For fucks sake I've said it in at least 3 posts. How the fucking hell do you think i want OKW to have no viable infantry? I've literally said their mainline needs a buff, you can't be serious

Do you even know what you're disagreeing with at this point?

No, wrong again, they also do that with tech locked upgrades like fg42, but that's besides the point.

The fg42 is not a free upgrade dude

One does have to point that when it comes to utility VG get sandbags and scavenger which PF do not get.

One does have to point that when it comes to utility VG get sandbags and scavenger which PF do not get.

Add the flame nade too to smash fortifications and force enemies out of cover. It is probably the most overlooked aspect of Volksgrenadier.

They win even in THE BEST possible range for Panzerfusiliers, and that's just one bar, that also costs less than G43

When you say the BAR costs less than the G43 are you referring to the g43 upgrade that increases squad size and line of sight or the Ostheer version that, like the BAR is JUST a weapon upgrade who's sole job is to exclusively increase damage output?
Obviously it would be unreasonable for a weapon who's only job is to increase damage to outperform an ability that also increases squad size and scouting capability.

Also cause like... Rifles are SPECIFICALLY designed to carry their faction on account of no feasible alternatives nor stock elite infantry to supliment them..

Fussies can do more out of the gate and can do more ability with vet and can do more with their package.
Utility vs combat power.
Utility plays into the cost of things both units and upgrades.

We really REALLY need to stop comparing fussies to units that are designed to do fighting and fighting alone.

Imagine and RPG character creator.
Then imagine the odacity of bitching that a character specd in every category that can do almost amything isn't outfighting a dedicated fighter designed solely to fight....

I didn't say they are OP...


How many fucking times do I have to say that volks need help? For fucks sake I've said it in at least 3 posts. How the fucking hell do you think i want OKW to have no viable infantry? I've literally said their mainline needs a buff, you can't be serious

Do you even know what you're disagreeing with at this point?

yes i know but right now there is no changes to volks so if we only nerf PFwe reach what i was ponting out , and i have a lot o doubt regarding the MOD team buffing volks in any way considering the precedents

there is no need to tell you for how long the forum cried about when they cost 10 less mp right ?

and then "i swear if i see a 0,01 buff to volks im gonna kill my self" squad so they got an increase in price with no upside , and we are in the current situation

yes i know but right now there is no changes to volks so if we only nerf PFwe reach what i was ponting out , and i have a lot o doubt regarding the MOD team buffing volks in any way considering the precedents

there is no need to tell you for how long the forum cried about when they cost 10 less mp right ?

I don't speak for the mod team and I don't speak for the forum. I speak for myself

Volks scale badly even with their upgrade, fusiliers are the exact opposite. That's the main reason it doesn't make sense to me that volks upgrade is 2 slots while fusiliers is 1

I really hope we can see at least one bigger change to Scavenge. The doctrine really needs more help than the small it got with those volks repair kits. Idk what that could be but infiltration nades don't really fit in the commander and could probably get replaced with something else. A 221 could maybe be a neat inclusion since it can help boost the economy which is kinda what this doctrine is meant to do.

I really hope we can see at least one bigger change to Scavenge. The doctrine really needs more help than the small it got with those volks repair kits. Idk what that could be but infiltration nades don't really fit in the commander and could probably get replaced with something else. A 221 could maybe be a neat inclusion since it can help boost the economy which is kinda what this doctrine is meant to do.

Scavenge is extremwly powerful right now. The only OKW commander without wasted slots and bad abilities, together with Overwatch

The issues are

Elite Armor

The 221 has awful performances for its cost and timing
The Sturmtiger shell is still unreliable

Grand Offensive

Panzer Commander can't be used by the Tiger anymore, it should be replaced by Another ability

Special Operations

Radio Silence is still useless and should simply be changed with radio interception at this point. If it was useful, it would also be OP btw so that's a good thing. I guess you can counter minimap/tacmap based recon with it and that's it really, but most of the time forms of recon like this give no warning, it's usually a camoed unit or behind some sight blocker

Feuersturm

Opel Blitz was changed to have lowered armor and turned into an ambulance, makes no sense in a doctrine that was otherwise made for Tier 1 play (early Hetzer, mp40, incendiary munitions...), it would fit better in Fortifications or Overwatch.

We mentioned the issues with OKW's 2nd tier commanders since the release of the 1.0 Version. Nothing changed so far. And we already know that only fine tuning is coming in the next versions.
We just have to realise that a majority of the mod team members dont want any more changes to 2nd OKW commanders. In my eyes it's a huge missed opportunity but further posts just seem to be a waste of time in this thread to be honest.