Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

Considering that Panzerfusilier Regiments were historically just renamed Panzergrenadier Regiments in certain divisions such as the Panzergrenadier Division Grossdeutschland, Feldherrnhalle and others, why not just turn them into mechanized utility infantry or something instead of volks replacements?

Stuff like being able to repair only vehicles, the same combat boost as the Ost Panzergrenadiers when they're near vehicles, hell maybe they could even come in a 251 Halftrack as a combat group, there are voicelines for it for both the announcer and the infantry units themselves about loading and unloading from transports.

Heavy Fortification
Heavy Fortifications will no longer allow Volksgrenadiers to plant S-mines. These have been transferred to Sturmpioneers to prevent these mines from being too readily available.

S-Mines moved to Sturmpioneers from Volksgrenadiers

SP are over burden, move s mine to SP if you want but do no remove from VG possibly add simple wire to VGs.

Build 2nd SP squad then.
Like all other factions have to when their single one becomes overburdened.

Build 2nd SP squad then.
Like all other factions have to when their single one becomes overburdened.

It’s very different for other factions when that second engineer squad costs 170-200 manpower compared to the hefty 300 that strumpioneres cost.

It’s very different for other factions when that second engineer squad costs 170-200 manpower compared to the hefty 300 that strumpioneres cost.

Its not uncommon for ost and sov to have 3 engies in late game JUST to repair.
That is comparable cost to double spio.
Spios were made cheaper and stronger over the years for the specific reason of allowing OKW 2nd spio without feeling crippled by the cost and that's what it achieves.

If you feel like you need to build more mines, build more units that can put them down.
Ability as powerful and spammable as minefield should never be on mainline inf and spios are "overburdened" exclusively in first 5-10 mins of the game, where they are used as combat unit as well, after that they are no different to other engies, spending most of their free time repairing, mining and sweeping.

Vg had S mines for ever and there is little reason to lose them.

Adding them to SP is step in a right direction.

I would say Fusiliers are probably still slightly too good even with not being able to pick up weapons off the ground. The issue to me is that I think they are slightly to cost effective against infantry that isn't fully upgraded. You need 2x Bar's on Rifles and 5-man + Brens to trade well. 7-man and SVT's are alright but get pretty outscaled once Fusi's hit Vet 3. I would make the G43 package 90 muni instead of 80 just to make it take a bit longer to fully upgrade all squads if you go 3-4 of them.

I would say Fusiliers are probably still slightly too good even with not being able to pick up weapons off the ground. The issue to me is that I think they are slightly to cost effective against infantry that isn't fully upgraded. You need 2x Bar's on Rifles and 5-man + Brens to trade well. 7-man and SVT's are alright but get pretty outscaled once Fusi's hit Vet 3. I would make the G43 package 90 muni instead of 80 just to make it take a bit longer to fully upgrade all squads if you go 3-4 of them.

When it comes to fighting power level Pf are at similar level with much cheaper Penals. Increasing the cost is not really a good direction. They are also more expensive than Rifles and IS.

If there is a need for change they should actually become cheaper and reduce the G43 to 2.

Smoke bombs for Lufwaffe commander seem to have different name and icon in lobby and in game.

It also different from Tiger commander although in game it seem to do the same things

I would really prefer something else entirely be done with PzFusilliers rather than the changes that are trying to balance them as an alternate volks. I posted this before but I would be interested in trying them as a 6 man squad that is strong early game, falls off midgame, and then can upgrade some amount of G43s late game. It would make them stand out from volks by having a period of weakness while volks get their power spike during that downtime. It would make them stand out and could be interesting to blend both units together.

Since the doctrinal S-mines were moved from Volks to stormpios due to "Being too readily available" I'm sure the balance team in all fairness is going to apply same balance logic to riflemen mines that come with a doctrine?

I'm at a point where I can't tell if balance team is just biased or incredibly incompetent. It is literally the exact goddam doctrinal ability to lay mines with mainline but for some goddam reason only one of these abilities got nerfed.

Since the doctrinal S-mines were moved from Volks to stormpios due to "Being too readily available" I'm sure the balance team in all fairness is going to apply same balance logic to riflemen mines that come with a doctrine?

I'm at a point where I can't tell if balance team is just biased or incredibly incompetent. It is literally the exact goddam doctrinal ability to lay mines with mainline but for some goddam reason only one of these abilities got nerfed.

I'm pretty sure rifle mines can't kill full health squad on retreat and have considerable build time, also being on most muni starved faction in game too.

I'm pretty sure rifle mines can't kill full health squad on retreat and have considerable build time, also being on most muni starved faction in game too.

For 60 muni you can lay 2 mines that kill an ostheer squad. S-mines also do not damage vehicles as the riflemen mines do. If you wanna use asymmetrical faction desing as argument in this 100% symmetrical situation maybe then take into account the asymmetry from OKW point of view considering situation?

-Sturmpio already has highest workload of all units meaning it is less effective at laying mines than RE would be.
-Sturmpio already has a mine that it can lay reducing the impact of having s-mines

This is perfect example of a situation where equal balance logic can and should be applied in order to achieve balance.

For 60 muni you can lay 2 mines that kill an ostheer squad. S-mines also do not damage vehicles as the riflemen mines do. If you wanna use asymmetrical faction desing as argument in this 100% symmetrical situation maybe then take into account the asymmetry from OKW point of view considering situation?

-Sturmpio already has highest workload of all units meaning it is less effective at laying mines than RE would be.
-Sturmpio already has a mine that it can lay reducing the impact of having s-mines

This is perfect example of a situation where equal balance logic can and should be applied in order to achieve balance.

+1
Sturmpio already has highest workload of all units and it's even higher if you want to use the abilities from this doc.
Sturms needs to build:
- 2cm flak
- trenches
- howie / pak43
- and S-mines after the changes

All that to the heavy work load of
- sweeping
- laying schuh mines
- repairing

and yes, you also want to use the unit for fighting...

I'm really not convinced by the OKW changes so far. Time and energy was invested to improve meta commanders via Pfussis although their 2nd tier commanders would need improvements far more. Now the odd decisions with the s-mines and the Sturms.

In all honesty if I look at the current Ost commander pool and compare it with OKW, then there is not much reason to pick this faction based on commanders. OKW was always inferior in terms of faction design but compensated that with a better commander pool. Now the best commanders were heavily (and rightfully) nerfed but the 2nd tier commanders with clear weaknesses were not improved. I dont understand the decision making here.


But let's wait for the next version of the patch and see what it brings to the OKW table. I really hope I have to eat my words then.

I'm pretty sure rifle mines can't kill full health squad on retreat and have considerable build time, also being on most muni starved faction in game too.

Their build times were buffed and then slightly nerfed. It's not quite how the other four guys used to watch Jimmy break a sweat

Don't know if this is intended or not but the Fusiliers reinforce cost in the mod is now 24 instead of 25.

Why does almost every patch bring a mini-nerf to Volks? The Fusilier changes and s-mine changes are unwarranted. If needed make the s-mines build slower on Volks.

popularity across all modes

Overwatch Doctrine 8
Breakthrough Doctrine 7
Special Operations Doctrine 6.75
Elite Armored Doctrine 6.25
Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine 4.75
Feuersturm Doctrine 4.25
Grand Offensive Doctrine 4.25
Fortifications Doctrine 2.25
Scavenge Doctrine 1.5

Note how much lower Fort D score compared to Over an dhow low Scavenger scores even with faster Ostwind

I think these numbers and scores are very arbitrary and very misleading. What do your numbers mean? What is your popularity scale? How did you get to these? What is your source? Why did you decide to modify the values? Can you tell us what kind of maths that you have applied to these numbers you are presenting to us to come to these conclusions? (edited)

+1
Sturmpio already has highest workload of all units and it's even higher if you want to use the abilities from this doc.
Sturms needs to build:
- 2cm flak
- trenches
- howie / pak43
- and S-mines after the changes

All that to the heavy work load of
- sweeping
- laying schuh mines
- repairing

and yes, you also want to use the unit for fighting...

I'm really not convinced by the OKW changes so far. Time and energy was invested to improve meta commanders via Pfussis although their 2nd tier commanders would need improvements far more. Now the odd decisions with the s-mines and the Sturms.

In all honesty if I look at the current Ost commander pool and compare it with OKW, then there is not much reason to pick this faction based on commanders. OKW was always inferior in terms of faction design but compensated that with a better commander pool. Now the best commanders were heavily (and rightfully) nerfed but the 2nd tier commanders with clear weaknesses were not improved. I dont understand the decision making here.


But let's wait for the next version of the patch and see what it brings to the OKW table. I really hope I have to eat my words then.

I would have to agree with this. Also I have never seen a thread or anyone complain about S-Mines. Balance team just changes random things for the sake of change making the game worse than it was before.

Also now that Minesweeper upgrades increase Repair Speed almost everyone has it on their units making S-Mines rather weak as is. Sturm Pios have enough to do as is and if anything units like the Kubelwagon should take over mining functions so that when it becomes irrelevant in game it can do things to lighten to load of Sturmpioneers instead of sitting as a maphack the entire match.