Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

UNLESS there's a gren hiding in the bushes who will sprint towards me out of nowhere (this will still be possible after the change)

So if its still possible to do after the change, why exactly are they even doing this. It's not even effective as a nerf to the thing it's SUPPOSED to be nerfing Lmfao. Literally sucks no matter how you look at it.

Look, I can't speak for the "professional COH2 gamers" out there, but to me, being revealed at 20 meters doesn't really scream "ambush camoflauge" to me.

I want to be constructive, so how about this: Remove sprint or snares on units who have ambush camoflauge. Or change the snare to an ability that doesn't lock in like conscript AT grenade assault. It's just my suggestion.

I mean I guess that it's somewhat counter-intuitive to use camo on LMG grens, so its not as useful on them, but for the three players who like to use G43, we're not going to be able to make the best use out of an "ambush" at 20 meters.

The comparison to Commandos is utter nonsense.
Grens and Commandos are completely different units with different profiles, function, availability, timing and abilities. In different faction. Even the camo type is different.

The comparison to Commandos is utter nonsense.
Grens and Commandos are completely different units with different profiles, function, availability, timing and abilities. In different faction. Even the camo type is different.

You are right, Commandos have active sniper-like camo and are up against mostly 4 men squads, which makes the nerf look even more nonsensical.
As many pointed out sprinting and snaring is still possible, this nerf just makes the camo unfairly harder to use in its actual intended role, which should be capitalizing on the camo to engage the enemy infantry at your discretion (waiting for bren sections or guards to get closer, using grenades or setting up support weapons) while still keeping the sprint snare as an actual possible option.
Besides that, what's the difference between commandos walzing through yellow cover like ninjas and throwing a gammon at your support weapons or infantry? It's far more crippling than forcing more repair time on medium armor

Someone may have said this already, but I think lowering the snare range to volks level could help the issue instead. Or just disabling the ability when camouflaged.

Or is the real purpose of the change to nerf G43 grenadier ambushes? In this case, why not make the G43 and Ambush Camouflage upgrades exclusive?

meh who cares about the camouflage nerf, you aren't supposed to ambush on close range anyways. For me I'm only upgrading it because of sprint the camo is just a bonus plus you mostly are using lmg most of the time and spamming mines/saving some munition for fausts and call-ins, upgrading them with ambush is a luxury. Just suck it up remember we're dealing with the guys who thinks vsl is fine compared to their counterpart upgrades. If u will go vsl just gardening go vanilla grenadier since grenader is supposed to be so good.

meh who cares about the camouflage nerf

By the people who complain, the ones who probably least used it in their games.

By the people who complain, the ones who probably least used it in their games.

Ambush Camouflage was already a very niche ability, you paid money to get camouflage on a long-range focused mainline. The best use case would be if you had G43's, and that still isn't 4+ SMG's. You're better off getting some Stormtroopers every time. Someone found a niche use for it that was theoretically effective, and now 7 years into the game's life, a niche ability is nerfed into uselessness. What good is camouflage that only works if stationary in cover and only works until someone is further than 20 meters away when vision is 30. It's really bad.

I do feel like the balance team too often comes up with theoretical strategies like "What if Grenadiers in camouflage sit in the path of my retreating tank?" and then pre-nerfs them without such a thing ever actually being a problem. What are the odds your tank will even go that way? Why are Grenadiers hiding behind your tank? Where's your infantry support?

The Camo nerf proves that balance team can be and are complete morons sometimes.
I mean why not just remove camo From grens and JCS.

Ambush Camouflage was already a very niche ability, you paid money to get camouflage on a long-range focused mainline.

Ambush attack bonus allows grens to quickly deal some nice initial damage, late game in team games when there is yellow cover everywhere you don't even need to micro putting them on hold fire for the bonus.

By the people who complain, the ones who probably least used it in their games.

NGL, you are most probably right about that. Although I do think going from 4 to 20 is a bit much ,12/14 would be more reasonable.

Ambush attack bonus allows grens to quickly deal some nice initial damage, late game in team games when there is yellow cover everywhere you don't even need to micro putting them on hold fire for the bonus.

That is still nothing compared to what USF or UKF can do just raw.

Well I'm no expert either so maybe the camo nerf is warranted. But maybe since this is mostly a problem in Jaeger Infantry Doctrine, shouldn't the nerf mostly be applied to this commander specifically and not all of them?

Or would that be too complicated? Just a thought


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Also why not update the beta again for further testing of these last minute changes and so we can make more bug reports? The patch was rolled back anyway so I don't see the harm in it

Well I'm no expert either so maybe the camo nerf is warranted. But maybe since this is mostly a problem in Jaeger Infantry Doctrine, shouldn't the nerf mostly be applied to this commander specifically and not all of them?

Or would that be too complicated? Just a thought


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Also why not update the beta again for further testing of these last minute changes and so we can make more bug reports? The patch was rolled back anyway so I don't see the harm in it

No you are perfectly right, the other 2 doctrines with ambush camouflage are far from top picks (storm maybe for the lefh and stuka dive bomb in teamgames but there's still better teamgames commanders)
Jäger Infantry being a top pick because of camo also seems weird. The doctrine has an anti pak wall off map, flare from KCS and stuka CAS. It is also why it wouldn't change anything overall in terms of doctrine viability, players would just dump even more muni in those abilities.

some of this decision making is so weird.

scopes on elefant have been a thing since day one and never have I seen people crying about them being op. Its a defining feature of a doctrine. They are a special doctrinal ability and so why they are being removed from elefant. If the argument is that of a self spotting tank-destroyer, well scopes have been nerfed in the past with a timing delay and they deactivate even if the elefant rotates.

camo again is a defining feature of jeager doctrine.. It requires munis to upgrade and cps to wait for. Even if being ambushed by a gren squad with g43s there is no danger of a wipe to the 5+ man allied units so, to mean this seems another pointless change to take away from a doctrinal ablity for no apparent reason other then some halfwit not knowing how to micro

scopes on elefant have been a thing since day one and never have I seen people crying about them being op. Its a defining feature of a doctrine. They are a special doctrinal ability and so why they are being removed from elefant. If the argument is that of a self spotting tank-destroyer, well scopes have been nerfed in the past with a timing delay and they deactivate even if the elefant rotates.

Self Spotting Elefant was super powerful and there was little reason for it to have been around so long. It's requires little input to have your super heavy self spot compared to all other super heavies which still need to be spotted for. Scopes on a 222 or something like that still gives the commander better spotting than other commanders but it's gonna be easier to disrupt it now.
There's a reason in 3v3 and 4v4 it's twice as included in a line up as other commanders. https://coh2stats.com/stats/week/1618790400/4v4/wermacht?statsSource=all

Imo camo nerf is fine. Grens are not exactly ideal to use it on point blank. If something being detected earlier allows mg 42 upgraded grens to capitalize their ideal range when enemy detects them to get most out of the situation.

The Camo nerf proves that balance team can be and are complete morons sometimes.
I mean why not just remove camo From grens and JCS.

Balance Team probably the worst thing to happen to the game honestly. The game isn't any more balanced than when they started and if anything it is more imbalanced than before due to power creep.

Now lets create a fake scenario as an example. Take a theoretical situation where Pioneers are under performing vs Combat Engineers. People complain, balance team will go and create a 5th Squad Member upgrade, give it like 100% accuracy at all ranges, Pioneer spam then becomes meta then they get nerfed into a worse position than what they were previously. Instead of saying ok, lets give Pioneers 10% accuracy bonus vs Combat Engineers only, then tweak/modify from there until its balanced.

Good Example of this was Rifleman vs Volks. Rifleman were fine vs Grenadiers but struggled vs OKW, rather than buff the unit against Volksgrenadiers only, they fixed the Volksgrenadier issue only to make Rifleman overperform vs Grenadiers creating another balance issue in the process.


There are 5 factions in the game so any change to one thing could have a profound effect on how that interacts with numerous other units. This is why they need to stop doing generic changes that effects how units interact with every other unit in the game and go for a more surgical approach. Think of it like a ripple effect in a pond. Rather than do generic changes that are very specific to what the issue is, they do massive sweeping generic changes.

Look at UKF for example. Pre-Nerf Infantry Sections only needed some tweaks, mostly in the form of doing less damage vs MGs. (All LMGs should have a damage penalty vs Heavy Machine Guns to prevent frontal attack move assaults but that is another topic) Being able to get Double Bren then Max Range demolish MGs was the main problem as you had no way to control blobbing. Instead of fixing that, Infantry Sections went through a balance loop of endless nerf after nerf until they became so garbage that they had to introduce Raid Sections into the game which will further upset balance even more.

Raid Sections wouldn't be needed if Infantry Sections weren't gutted into the ground but here we are. In a month something else will be considered OP and then nerfed into the ground and the never ending cycle continues since they don't address problems in a way that actually fixes things permanently.

Imo camo nerf is fine. Grens are not exactly ideal to use it on point blank. If something being detected earlier allows mg 42 upgraded grens to capitalize their ideal range when enemy detects them to get most out of the situation.

Grens G43 are ideal to use use at close range against several opponents, lmg riflemen, bren section, paratroopers, guards and so on, and now that they have a normal grenade it will be even more useful
If the issue is the alpha strike they can dish out I could understand the nerf, but apparently the issue is not even related to the nerf.