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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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6 Apr 2021, 11:37 AM
#161
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

After watching Tighdrope's vid I fully agree that the G43 upgrade should be earlier available. Right you can upgrade to Lmg42 often sooner than to g43.
Suggestion:
- CP requirements for g43 reduced to Cp1 (from 2)
- Mun cost back to 45 ammo (from 60 now)

I am not sure why the mod team is spending so much resources on the G43 (with no satisfactory result).

Simply merge Jaeger Light Infantry Upgrade with Jaeger Command Squad is one unit available in CP 1 and reduce the number of G43 to 2.
6 Apr 2021, 11:40 AM
#162
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2021, 11:37 AMVipper

I am not sure why the mod team is spending so much resources on the G43 (with no satisfactory result).

To.... get a satisfactory result for underused upgrade.... like with ppsh right now, penal ptrs earlier and so on....

Simply merge Jaeger Light Infantry Upgrade with Jaeger Command Squad is one unit available in CP and reduce the number of G43 to 2.

Still with limit of 1 or have you learned absolutely nothing from pre nerf VSL?
6 Apr 2021, 11:51 AM
#163
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 713 | Subs: 2

Any further buffs on G43 would be insane. G43 are in the most Meta doctrined already. The upgrade itself isn't amazing but underrated. The current buff is somewhat acceptable as long as camouflage gets removed from grens.

Keep the 5Men fiasko in mind. Doctrines that allow grens to become mobile close range squads quickly become mandatory at high level.
6 Apr 2021, 12:11 PM
#164
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2021, 11:37 AMVipper
I am not sure why the mod team is spending so much resources on the G43 (with no satisfactory result).

Simply merge Jaeger Light Infantry Upgrade with Jaeger Command Squad is one unit available in CP and reduce the number of G43 to 2.


Changing three values is significantly less work than what you suggested.


Also no offense, but it would really help you get your points across if you'd take the time to re-read your sentences before posting. You're missing words very often and then nobody knows what you mean. "Available in CP" - what?
6 Apr 2021, 12:58 PM
#165
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Changing three values is significantly less work than what you suggested.

How many times has the MOD team tinkered around with G43 now?

Every time you balance PG/grenadier you also have to balance the upgrade by turning it to an separate unit that problem will be solved.

And base line is already there JLC.


Also no offense, but it would really help you get your points across if you'd take the time to re-read your sentences before posting. You're missing words very often and then nobody knows what you mean. "Available in CP" - what?

No offense taken, you observation is correct, my apologies.
It should read CP 1.
6 Apr 2021, 13:00 PM
#166
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


To.... get a satisfactory result for underused upgrade.... like with ppsh right now, penal ptrs earlier and so on....


Still with limit of 1 or have you learned absolutely nothing from pre nerf VSL?

You analogy is of mark.

An upgrade for grenadier/PG and CP 1 unit are different things.
Pip
6 Apr 2021, 13:00 PM
#167
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

Would replacing the 2x gren G43 with 1x JLI G43 (perhaps a weaker version with a lower critical treshold %) be overkill? The idea is that these G43 grenadiers would be most effective if used together with an other, lmg grenadier squad while on their own they would be worse than an lmg squad. Similar to how pathfinders and lmg paratroopers can work together for the highest efficiency.


It might be too strong. OSTheer already have a sniper, and them getting JLI for 240MP is probably a recipe for disaster.
6 Apr 2021, 15:22 PM
#168
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2021, 12:58 PMVipper
How many times has the MOD team tinkered around with G43 now?


One time? In the past 3+ years the only thing that got adjusted about the Jaeger Light Infantry upgrade was the DPS for the PGren G43s, and they are good now.
Pip
6 Apr 2021, 15:27 PM
#169
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



One time? In the past 3+ years the only thing that got adjusted about the Jaeger Light Infantry upgrade was the DPS for the PGren G43s, and they are good now.


It's a bit of a shame that G43s on Pgrens are a pretty "no brainer" upgrade, but admittedly this has been the design for weapon upgrades for basically every squad since the game's inception.

Other than that though, I'd agree that Pgren G43s are in a pretty good place.
I might argue that Storm and Gren G43 packages aren't really ideal though, neither upgrade really fits the units' roles, in my opinion.
6 Apr 2021, 15:33 PM
#170
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



One time? In the past 3+ years the only thing that got adjusted about the Jaeger Light Infantry upgrade was the DPS for the PGren G43s, and they are good now.

SEPTEMBER 2019




NEW COMMANDER UPDATE - JUNE 14TH 2019
Panzergrenadiers

MARCH 28th



December 12th 2018



6 Apr 2021, 15:35 PM
#171
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

Why is the LeFH only in 2 doctrines now?
Pip
6 Apr 2021, 15:37 PM
#172
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2021, 15:35 PMSpoof
Why is the LeFH only in 2 doctrines now?


This only appears to be an issue Because Ostheer have too many doctrines. Ideally it would only be in one doc, as with all doctrinal units.
6 Apr 2021, 15:37 PM
#173
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2021, 13:00 PMPip


It might be too strong. OSTheer already have a sniper, and them getting JLI for 240MP is probably a recipe for disaster.


True.

Gren G43s are just in a weird position where their advantages are really just temporary and eventually allied infantry tend to outmatch them. I mean back when cons had no 7th man upgrade, sure, I used them all the times, but now Tightrope's video shows that even there they get matched pretty evenly... in a best case scenario for grens.
On the other hand PG G43s are ridiculously strong, like they do almost as much dps as lmg grens at long range.
6 Apr 2021, 15:39 PM
#174
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2021, 15:35 PMSpoof
Why is the LeFH only in 2 doctrines now?

So the doctrines are not overlapping with the same abilities in 7 of them.
Pip
6 Apr 2021, 15:46 PM
#175
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



True.

Gren G43s are just in a weird position where their advantages are really just temporary and eventually allied infantry tend to outmatch them. I mean back when cons had no 7th man upgrade, sure, I used them all the times, but now Tightrope's video shows that even there they get matched pretty evenly... in a best case scenario for grens.
On the other hand PG G43s are ridiculously strong, like they do almost as much dps as lmg grens at long range.


I agree, the Gren G43 upgrade isnt really fitting for the unit, they're simply not a close-range squad, and they shouldnt need to be: That's what Pgrens are for. I'd agree that a JLI-like upgrade would be a better fit... but I'm just not sure it would be balanced in the context of OST.

Pgrens with G43s really do do an awful lot of damage at long (max) range, vet3 is ~20.25 vs LMG grens at vet3 with 23.61, assuming the seralia numbers are accurate. Pgrens then have the further benefit of keeping most of their DPS on the move, and being monstrous close up, in comparison to the LMG grens. Very strange.
6 Apr 2021, 15:54 PM
#176
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2021, 15:33 PMVipper
SEPTEMBER 2019



NEW COMMANDER UPDATE - JUNE 14TH 2019


MARCH 28th


December 12th 2018


March 28th... 2017, come on. In 2019 the price was temporarily adjusted from one patch to the next while figuring out the values for the DPS improvement, so you can scrap those. Storms just received an update to match PGren standard (3x G43) after having their STG 44s replaced by MP 40s. In summary, the only major change to the Jaeger Light Infantry upgrade in over 3 years was the DPS buff for the PGren variant.
6 Apr 2021, 15:55 PM
#177
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

The level of petty nitpicking on vippers part just to prove he is "right" here lol.
6 Apr 2021, 16:32 PM
#178
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



March 28th... 2017, come on. In 2019 the price was temporarily adjusted from one patch to the next while figuring out the values for the DPS improvement, so you can scrap those. Storms just received an update to match PGren standard (3x G43) after having their STG 44s replaced by MP 40s. In summary, the only major change to the Jaeger Light Infantry upgrade in over 3 years was the DPS buff for the PGren variant.

The ability has seen more change than many other abilities and it remains to be seen if these are the correct values.
(also check how many thing have been tested within each patch)

It very probable that LMG with same price will be a better choice.

I stand by my suggestion, scarp the upgrade and start working from JLC or start with G43 at around M1 level.
6 Apr 2021, 17:22 PM
#179
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2021, 15:46 PMPip


I agree, the Gren G43 upgrade isnt really fitting for the unit, they're simply not a close-range squad, and they shouldnt need to be: That's what Pgrens are for. I'd agree that a JLI-like upgrade would be a better fit... but I'm just not sure it would be balanced in the context of OST.

Pgrens with G43s really do do an awful lot of damage at long (max) range, vet3 is ~20.25 vs LMG grens at vet3 with 23.61, assuming the seralia numbers are accurate. Pgrens then have the further benefit of keeping most of their DPS on the move, and being monstrous close up, in comparison to the LMG grens. Very strange.


I had an idea of making grenadier G43s more effective at longer range (but still lower dps than lmg), justifying that 60 muni cost while PGs and Storms would get a single infrared Stg instead of G43s (perhaps 2 for the latter), improving them all around but not making them like a better grenadier squad. I mean it's nachtjaeger equipment, so it kinda fits into the jaeger package.
Edit: ober infared stg44 would be overkill, but a weaker version could work. Like even slightly weaker than the pg stg44 (those battery packs ain't light) but granting the anti cover bonus.
7 Apr 2021, 01:44 AM
#180
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Jaeger Armor needs to lose the AT strafe. That was a horrible decision, the commander is still just as powerful as it was before, just slightly different

Commander is still going to dominate the meta for a while if nothing is changed. If this patch is trying shift the meta, fixing Jaeger Armor needs to be a priority. Cause it wasn't fixed by any definition
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