Commander Update Beta 2021 - General Feedback

I'm not sure what you are playing but mobility is the name of this game from my experience.

If you're really staying in front of a bunch of static units instead of trying to flank or bombard them then there's something seriously wrong with the strategic genius behind the screen.

Same went with the British in CoH that got their Fireflies with Hull down as well as the Cromwell Command Tank that buffed their reload.

You don't stay in front of them, you either go around them or hit em with arty.

That's fine and all, but turning a JP4 into longer range elefant is a bad idea

There's currently a thread about how strong the hulled down Panther is, and that's without off map arty or HEAT shells that also increase AI damage.

Then yuu consider the KT is an okw stock unit and you ould have a literal bunker.

In the preview tanks no longer need infantry to hull down, and it's only a click to disengage so mobility won't be a huge issue as you can just creep forward with tanks that are already extremely durable...

That's fine and all, but turning a JP4 into longer range elefant is a bad idea

There's currently a thread about how strong the hulled down Panther is, and that's without off map arty or HEAT shells that also increase AI damage.

Then yuu consider the KT is an okw stock unit and you ould have a literal bunker.

In the preview tanks no longer need infantry to hull down, and it's only a click to disengage so mobility won't be a huge issue as you can just creep forward with tanks that are already extremely durable...

You're right they should give hulldown to a garbage commander like scavenger.

That's fine and all, but turning a JP4 into longer range elefant is a bad idea

There's currently a thread about how strong the hulled down Panther is, and that's without off map arty or HEAT shells that also increase AI damage.

Then yuu consider the KT is an okw stock unit and you ould have a literal bunker.

In the preview tanks no longer need infantry to hull down, and it's only a click to disengage so mobility won't be a huge issue as you can just creep forward with tanks that are already extremely durable...

You're worried about a fixed gun vehicle being static?

Do you know how much useful a hull downed Elefant is actually or have you used one? Because I have and it's only really useful on extremely choke points and even then it can get artied and flanked.

The KT is also slow so if it's caught out of position with it's slow turret speed as well it's just dead, doesn't matter if hull downed or not.

The only problem would be the Panther because of it's speed, but as the mod team have done with the delay, if it's again caught out of position and cannot retreat it's dead.

So it's a risk and reward thing but I think you're overexaggerating it because you either don't have experience with it or are playing more on the Allied side and think it's going to be OP or something.

You're worried about a fixed gun vehicle being static?

Do you know how much useful a hull downed Elefant is actually or have you used one? Because I have and it's only really useful on extremely choke points and even then it can get artied and flanked.

The KT is also slow so if it's caught out of position with it's slow turret speed as well it's just dead, doesn't matter if hull downed or not.

The only problem would be the Panther because of it's speed, but as the mod team have done with the delay, if it's again caught out of position and cannot retreat it's dead.

So it's a risk and reward thing but I think you're overexaggerating it because you either don't have experience with it or are playing more on the Allied side and think it's going to be OP or something.

You are completely missing the ease of use buffs its getting. Any tank can hull itself down. No support or anything. And they can turn it off rapidly if things get squiffy.

The JP4 would OUTRANGE an, it's already a great TD.
Almost all okw tanks get increased vision with vet, including bonus vision when stationary.
All okw armour has a minimum of 230 armour making them some of the most durable tanks in the game BEFORE adding a damage reduction...

I'm saying there's more to Consider than "hurr durr it'll be cooleo" I know crazy silly things like "faction design" and "will making an already great tank even better upset balance"
Or "what if we combine all things everyone hates about emplacements, make em mobile and let them call in arty"
A hulled down KT with spearhead over watching a VP with a JP4 that could in a few seconds fire at an elefant without risk return fire would be bad design
Especially when you consider that the tank HASN'T given up its mobility-a press of a button and its mobile again, ready to blitz to safety if it needs to...

I'm sayin it's a bad idea shoe honing in abilities that are not considered the repercussions of.
A JP4 could set up shot and outrange a 17lb...

Think man. Think!

You are completely missing the ease of use buffs its getting. Any tank can hull itself down. No support or anything. And they can turn it off rapidly if things get squiffy.

The JP4 would OUTRANGE an, it's already a great TD.
Almost all okw tanks get increased vision with vet, including bonus vision when stationary.
All okw armour has a minimum of 230 armour making them some of the most durable tanks in the game BEFORE adding a damage reduction...

I'm saying there's more to Consider than "hurr durr it'll be cooleo" I know crazy silly things like "faction design" and "will making an already great tank even better upset balance"
Or "what if we combine all things everyone hates about emplacements, make em mobile and let them call in arty"
A hulled down KT with spearhead over watching a VP with a JP4 that could in a few seconds fire at an elefant without risk return fire would be bad design
Especially when you consider that the tank HASN'T given up its mobility-a press of a button and its mobile again, ready to blitz to safety if it needs to...

I'm sayin it's a bad idea shoe honing in abilities that are not considered the repercussions of.
A JP4 could set up shot and outrange a 17lb...

Think man. Think!

I think the problem is you're imagining the OKW hull down being just a copy paste of the Ost one.

While in reality that ability doesn't exist for the OKW, only the animations do, so it's very likely that it's going to be balanced differently.

Plus as I've already said in the Ost topic about it fixed gun vehicles like the StuG, Elefant, Stupa and for the OKW the JP4 should have some sort of cloak or something instead due to their limited gun traverse so it's entirely possible to adjust it to a vehicle specifically altho it already has a cloak ability with vet from what I remember.

As far as the rest of your concerns about OP combination of abilities, you may feel free to test your theory with the All Units mod where you can hulldown OKW vehicles.

I have as well as in the old CoH with the British and it wasn't something that was game breaking again simply because a static position is a great target for artillery.

I think the problem is you're imagining the OKW hull down being just a copy paste of the Ost one.

While in reality that ability doesn't exist for the OKW, only the animations do, so it's very likely that it's going to be balanced differently.

Plus as I've already said in the Ost topic about it fixed gun vehicles like the StuG, Elefant, Stupa and for the OKW the JP4 should have some sort of cloak or something instead due to their limited gun traverse so it's entirely possible to adjust it to a vehicle specifically altho it already has a cloak ability with vet from what I remember.

As far as the rest of your concerns about OP combination of abilities, you may feel free to test your theory with the All Units mod where you can hulldown OKW vehicles.

I have as well as in the old CoH with the British and it wasn't something that was game breaking again simply because a static position is a great target for artillery.

I'm seeing it as a copy and paste of the ost one because there shouldn't be multiple abilities with the same name, same animation on the same units doing different things. It makes things messy and a player shouldn't be required to go off site to find out what each hull down does depending on which units of which faction its applied to.

My concern is that we're going to slap abilities within considering anything other than that there are animations already. Things like HEAT in conjunction with a hulled down JP4 for example would be like a lite pak43 that can preserve vet and reposition, even chase.
Or a hulled down KT makes its strength (durability and formidable gun) even more profound. The KT is already so slow trading mobility for a damage reduction as needed isn't so much an issue if the pros are great enough.

Also cohf holds no weight here as it's a different game. If mobility was all then the emplacement cancer of coh2" never would have been.

I'm seeing it as a copy and paste of the ost one because there shouldn't be multiple abilities with the same name, same animation on the same units doing different things. It makes things messy and a player shouldn't be required to go off site to find out what each hull down does depending on which units of which faction its applied to.

My concern is that we're going to slap abilities within considering anything other than that there are animations already. Things like HEAT in conjunction with a hulled down JP4 for example would be like a lite pak43 that can preserve vet and reposition, even chase.
Or a hulled down KT makes its strength (durability and formidable gun) even more profound. The KT is already so slow trading mobility for a damage reduction as needed isn't so much an issue if the pros are great enough.

Also cohf holds no weight here as it's a different game. If mobility was all then the emplacement cancer of coh2" never would have been.

Well then you might want to talk to the dev team that put in the OKW 221 and Tiger which are only a couple of examples I can think of right now off the top of my head as to why exactly they're the same units as their Ost counterparts, yet being different if we are to go by your logic.

As far as your concerns go, they are only yours because as it's becoming evident first with the OKW "Command" Tiger losing it's Panzer Commander upgrade and now with the Elefant losing the spotting scopes that vehicles can be made as exceptions to certain abilities in their doctrine.

Plus as I mentioned I'd prefer fixed gun vehicles to not be hull downed due to their limited gun traverse.

And experience from CoH does have some weight as Hull Down here is a version of the British ability from there, so if you've used or faced it there you may have an easier time dealing with it in this game.

Also just a note, but static gameplay doesn't win games. So while yes emplacements are a pain to deal with if you don't have artillery or something they will not bring victory to the user.

Well then you might want to talk to the dev team that put in the OKW 221 and Tiger which are only a couple of examples I can think of right now off the top of my head as to why exactly they're the same units as their Ost counterparts, yet being different if we are to go by your logic.

And since in this update there is strict "no swapping units between factions", Relic got tired of that as well and it clearly is not a way forward.

And since in this update there is strict "no swapping units between factions", Relic got tired of that as well and it clearly is not a way forward.

And what do you suggest then, the same old nerfs and buffs that have been happening for the past 7 or so years now?

The people want new units and abilities, if it wasn't so the All Units mod and others like it that add those wouldn't be so popular right now.

Hell most of the new content that the current dev team put in was made by the community in the first place, so obviously it works and it's appreciated then by most of the people.

You can even hear HelpingHans himself say that we'd all like to have more units in the game while reviewing the upcoming Gates to Hell DLC for Call to Arms here at 6:48 this video:



Note: These guys are an indie dev team and already have enough German vehicles for probably 2 or hell maybe even 3 German factions.

I want that towed aa gun. F's infantry F vehicles. wish could come as a replacement for 45 mm at gun.

You can even hear HelpingHans himself say that we'd all like to have more units in the game

TBH, its hard for me to imagine coh2 player who wouldn't share that sentiment.
OKW being pretty massive offender here with so much overlap with ost.
I would love OKW to be as different and unique to ost as PE was to wehr in coh1, but we have what we have and "new relic" doesn't have all that much imagination or will to put extra effort compared to "old relic" of coh1 and DoW1 and 2 era.

TBH, its hard for me to imagine coh2 player who wouldn't share that sentiment.
OKW being pretty massive offender here with so much overlap with ost.
I would love OKW to be as different and unique to ost as PE was to wehr in coh1, but we have what we have and "new relic" doesn't have all that much imagination or will to put extra effort compared to "old relic" of coh1 and DoW1 and 2 era.

There is effectively 0 effort required on Lelic's part to implement new models/textures. It's a case of reverting the change that made doing so impossible for modders.

Revert this, and the Balance Team can create, import, and implement pretty much whatever they like, and from I saw from early attempts: This wouldn't even require a massive amount of effort from the Balance Team either.

Speaking of Relic.



If only there was something to prevent this clumping of infantry at a point of a certain base...

It would probably the biggest QoL change, the AEF base change. Don't know how many times I've had units retreating in place only because they are bumping into another unit. If anything, it taught me not to retreat more than one unit at the same time.

I need this now. You could even scrunch it in a little more on the sides for better space conservation so it could have almost the same dimension as the Brit Base. Base Sectors would be so much less cancerous to work with.

I need this now. You could even scrunch it in a little more on the sides for better space conservation so it could have almost the same dimension as the Brit Base. Base Sectors would be so much less cancerous to work with.

Well you can play with the mod if you click on the original picture that I posted.

It's also included in the All Units one as well.

But otherwise I doubt it will ever be added to the game sadly.

But otherwise I doubt it will ever be added to the game sadly.

Yeah I know, but I can dream.

Please post all general feedback from the Commander Update beta here. Each faction has its own thread for specific feedback related to their commanders, units, etc.

Full notes here

Commander Update Beta Changelog - April 19, 2021

Hi everyone, a new version of the Commander Update Beta has gone live. You can find the changelog here. Instructions on how to access the beta are at the top of this post here.

As before, please share your feedback while we continue to work on this.

Wow, great to see that Osinyagov's reworked Commander portraits made it to the game!