Nade cooldowns

Why is the Falls smoke grenade not on a cooldown with its other grenades similar to how commandos smoke grenade forces a cool down of the gammon bomb. IIRC this also applies to volks when they have the infiltration grenades and the flame grenades dont share a cooldwon.

Why is the Falls smoke grenade not on a cooldown with its other grenades similar to how commandos smoke grenade forces a cool down of the gammon bomb. IIRC this also applies to volks when they have the infiltration grenades and the flame grenades dont share a cooldwon.

The reason smoke grenades share cool down with normal grenades is that it can be used to frontally attack a hmg.

Blendkörper is not a just "smoke" grenade but does damage and slow down so it can not be used that way.

I am not arguing that it should be on shared cd I am simply explaining the reasons.

My suggestions though would be to change Blendkörper to be used for its real life design and become a temp vehicle snare.

The reason smoke grenades share cool down with normal grenades is that it can be used to frontally attack a hmg.

As usual, bullshit.

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While you can't walk into the blendekörper smoke (or at least it is highly unadwised), one may use it to slow down a retreating squad and put a bundle nade on top, a bit cheesy tbh.

The reason smoke grenades share cool down with normal grenades is that it can be used to frontally attack a hmg.

Game historically wrong. They share a cool-down so that they can not be spammed within combat. In previous versions of the game, it was easily possible to use Shocks to frontally attack, smoke and throw a nade at HMGs quickly to get easy wipes. It worked perfectly against other units too. Shocks were also able to throw too many nades too quickly once they vetted up. There was a bug introduced in one of the mods which was quickly fixed in a patch. at least now it needs a bit of play to do the smoke/nade combo, but its not as easy as it was back then. You're wrong again.

As usual, bullshit.

Pls do not use personal comment/profanities they are non constructive. (6 time)

Due to a programming level bug with Shock Troop grenade cooldowns, a shared cooldown has been reinstated.

The theory that all infatry have a shared CD on smoke grenades is due to a bug is simply unsupported for a number of reasons:

1) The majority of units with the combination smoke grenades/HE have them on shared cd

2) Even Shock troops used to have them in shared CD December 2018 and there was an attempt to remove the shared CD a buff. I pretty sure that even if there was no bug the MOD team would had realized it was not the brightest idea.

3) There is nothing about a bug about the LT change or the Jaeger :
"Lieutenant

This change puts the Lieutenant's smoke ability in-line with other units that have non-lethal smoke and fragmentation grenades.

Smoke now shares a cooldown with Frag Grenades"

"Smoke and Rifle grenade now on shared cooldown (as originally intended)"

Think it pretty clear that smoke grenades and HE grenades sharing CD is intentional.


If you are still skeptical and thing that shared CD is due to bugs feel free to ask the moderation team.

Pls do not use personal comment/profanities they are non-constructive. (6 time)


The theory that all infatry have a shared CD on smoke grenades is due to a bug is simply unsupported for a number of reasons:

He clearly says and supported with evidence by the patch notes, that it is Shock Troopers related. You are arguing with an element copy-pasted from patch notes. Also, you are changing what he says to all infantry, deflecting the point. Is there a reason why you are changing what he and the patch notes says? In my post is the reason behind the change of shock's nades. I agree that there should be some shared cool-down, but it clearly depends on units. Shocks nades were abused to death..

If you are still skeptical and thing that shared CD is due to bugs feel free to ask the moderation team.

Why should Kat ask the moderation team? The moderation team has nothing to do with any unit changes like shared cooldowns, or any patches. They moderate, they don't do mods. Please leave them out of this.

He clearly says and supported with evidence by the patch notes, that it is Shock Troopers related. You are arguing with an element copy-pasted from patch notes. Also, you are changing what he says to all infantry, deflecting the point. Is there a reason why you are changing what he and the patch notes says? In my post is the reason behind the change of shock's nades. I agree that there should be some shared cool-down, but it clearly depends on units. Shocks nades were abused to death..

I agree it is quite nitpicky to focus a general point about shared nade CD on shocks only. I don't understand Katitof's point either on this one since it does not contradict anything.
Many other units got similar treatment, most well known probably Riflemen that were changed the same way because of that: Axis HMGs were becoming useless. And I vaguely recall Sander stating the same reasoning for the difference between blendkorper/smoke nade and shared CD with the grenade in one of the patch discussions (I think it was the patch before last). I can't find it at the moment, but I think it was along the lines of blenkorper doing damage, so unlike smoke you can't push through it to throw the nade. Since nothing got changed in that regard, I assume this is the opinion of the majority of the balance team.

I agree it is quite nitpicky to focus a general point about shared nade CD on shocks only. I don't understand Katitof's point either on this one since it does not contradict anything.
Many other units got similar treatment, most well known probably Riflemen that were changed the same way because of that: Axis HMGs were becoming useless. And I vaguely recall Sander stating the same reasoning for the difference between blendkorper/smoke nade and shared CD with the grenade in one of the patch discussions (I think it was the patch before last). I can't find it at the moment, but I think it was along the lines of blenkorper doing damage, so unlike smoke you can't push through it to throw the nade. Since nothing got changed in that regard, I assume this is the opinion of the majority of the balance team.

Now that you mention it, I remember that discussion. But there are too many posts to dig through.

As long as falls nades combo don't render HMGs useless through a frontal attack as Shocks did ages ago, I don't see a reason for any change at all.

/moved thread to gameplay since there is no balancing suggestion

Now that you mention it, I remember that discussion. But there are too many posts to dig through.

As long as falls nades combo don't render HMGs useless through a frontal attack as Shocks did ages ago, I don't see a reason for any change at all.

I tried to find it but no chance, I think it was a sub-discussion in a thread that was about something else.

Vipper was only pointing out why they are handled differently which was Latch's question. There were no suggestions (at least not yet).
Technically the blendkorper could also share CD but it rarely matters in the first place. There's a decent reason against that too. I wouldn't fix what isn't broken and likely does not provide benefit either way.

I agree it is quite nitpicky to focus a general point about shared nade CD on shocks only. I don't understand Katitof's point either on this one since it does not contradict anything.
Many other units got similar treatment, most well known probably Riflemen that were changed the same way because of that: Axis HMGs were becoming useless. And I vaguely recall Sander stating the same reasoning for the difference between blendkorper/smoke nade and shared CD with the grenade in one of the patch discussions (I think it was the patch before last). I can't find it at the moment, but I think it was along the lines of blenkorper doing damage, so unlike smoke you can't push through it to throw the nade. Since nothing got changed in that regard, I assume this is the opinion of the majority of the balance team.

My post was about smoke grenades/HE grenades generally and was in way specifically focus on shock troops alone.

User katitof wrote a very vague (non constructive post) which can be interpreter either that infatry with smoke grenade/HE shared CD because of bug (which exist at least in the case of shock troops) or that there at least one exception and that although the majority of infatry shared CD for the reason I explained (so they can not attack HMG frontally) that is not the case for shock troops.

In the case he meant the later it is rather irrelevant and unnecessary point and does not changes what I have posted. I might made some sense bringing up shock if I had claimed that is there a "golden" rule with no exceptions. I didn't so it does not.

Since the later makes little sense, I decided to respond to former which is claim that all infatry with smoke grenades/HE share CD because of bug. In any case I pretty sure user Katitof is able to explain what he meant if chooses to (with less non constructive comments hopefully) and has little need of advocate.

I would say it is due to unit roles.
Shocks and Commandos are both short range units which use the smoke to close in with little damage. They use shared CDs so that you can't just chain grenade up to an MG for an easy wipe.

Units with the blendkorper are generally longer range like Obers and Falls, so they generally don't need the smoke to close in, and can't because they would damage themselves with it.

Thats just my interpretation though, old lelic had some questionable balance choices and it could just be an oversight that noone thought to correct.

In the case he meant the later it is rather irrelevant and unnecessary point and does not changes what I have posted. I might made some sense bringing up shock if I had claimed that is there a "golden" rule with no exceptions. I didn't so it does not.

But you do claim a rule in a previous post. It contradicts what you have just posted above. Can you elaborate on that?

This change puts the Lieutenant's smoke ability in-line with other units that have non-lethal smoke and fragmentation grenades. Smoke now shares a cooldown with Frag Grenades"
"Smoke and Rifle grenade now on shared cooldown (as originally intended)"

Think it pretty clear that smoke grenades and HE grenades sharing CD is intentional.

I would say it is due to unit roles.
Shocks and Commandos are both short range units which use the smoke to close in with little damage. They use shared CDs so that you can't just chain grenade up to an MG for an easy wipe.

Units with the blendkorper are generally longer range like Obers and Falls, so they generally don't need the smoke to close in, and can't because they would damage themselves with it.

Thats just my interpretation though, old lelic had some questionable balance choices and it could just be an oversight that noone thought to correct.

True but there are still countless advantages to having two the blendkorper and a regular grenade especially when it comes to VP play. 'Smoke' the point blocking sight for any MG/unit and slowing down any that try enter, the launching a nade to any that close in or get onto the point.

Would like to know myself if it is intentional or an oversight.

As usual, bullshit.

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huehuehue you showed them boss

While you can't walk into the blendekörper smoke (or at least it is highly unadwised), one may use it to slow down a retreating squad and put a bundle nade on top, a bit cheesy tbh.

I've seen this before, not the easiest to pull off but it probably shouldn't be possible. Also having 2 grenades available to contest capping in desperate end-game scenarios is a bit of an unfair advantage as well I would say. Plus I'm pretty sure Assault Tommies have their phosphorus and regular mills bombs share cooldowns which is basically the same concept albeit they are also short-range squads like Shocks.

Blendkorper + Bundle cheese is pretty dumb honestly, if other factions can't do it I don't think OKW should either.

Blendkorper + Bundle cheese is pretty dumb honestly, if other factions can't do it I don't think OKW should either.

Stormtroopers can throw smoke and flame nade.

Artillery Officer can smoke arty + Coordinated barrage + Heavy mortar barrage


Obers Blender and bundle is allowed.

Volks assault package replaces flame with HE nade, therefore it is disabled by smoke. In case a rework happens and a commander appears with Infiltration nades and MP40 package, that is not disabled.


IS with Pyro, can throw smoke artillery + artillery barrage and either Nade/Gammon bomb.

Ass IS can incendiary smoke + either Nade/Gammon


Major can smoke nade + artillery call

RET with GL upgrade can smoke + attack ground.


I purposely gave all combinations of smoke + some kind of offensive ability.

I think the only weird one is the Stormtrooper and if people deem incendiary nade + HE nade strong combo, all 3 units should get shared cd.


I don't think there's an issue with officers or pyro. Obviously nothing wrong with RET.

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My concern is that the Blendkorper slows models down which makes it easy to set up a cheesy wipe. None of the other abilities you mentioned can do anything similar.