Some thoughts on OKW and their issues.

For me OKW's biggest weakness is that you essentially have to choose between cost-effective healing and light vehicles/rocket artillery. The Flak HT is kind of a crutch at least in 1v1 because its the only option in the Battlegroup and it comes at a really good timing. If you go mechanized the issue is you have to spend munitions on medical supplies constantly delaying your infantry upgrades and restricting how often you can use grenades, mines, and snares which Volks need to win engagements against upgraded enemy mainlines (SVT/7-man Cons, 5-man Tommies, Bar/1919 Rifles etc). I think if you at least moved the medics to the HQ and made them cost what the previously were which I think was 150 mp 15 fuel you could go either tech and still at least have access to healing which would help Volks significantly. Maybe you rework tech costs so it costs like 100 mp 15 fuel for the Battlegroup plus the 70 mp 15 fuel for the sWs and then make it like 50 mp and 10 fuel to unlock access to the Flak HT and IRHT. Then allow OKW to buy a regular Ostheer P4 for 350 mp and 120 fuel and require the player to purchase skirts for 50 mp and 20 fuel similar to USF's bulldozers. That way OKW can snares quicker and have healing access regardless of if you go Mech or Battlegroup and it would also help with the P4 timing being slightly too late if you decide to go for a Luchs or Puma. Luchs could probably use a slight build time decrease (15-30 seconds) as well to compensate for Puma nerfs, while the Flak HT could probably have its build time delayed by 15 seconds to make it not as large of a crutch. Maybe a small buff for Volks like allowing them to have two weapon slots or making them 250 mp again. Probably shouldn't do anything with Obers at the moment.

Every faction has issues with a vital unit crippling them if destroyed before it makes an impact, but no other faction loses tech buildings like OKW does.

what other units? genuinely asking, cause i cant think of any other than maybe early loss and capture of a mg/vickers for OST/UKF.

For me OKW's biggest weakness is that you essentially have to choose between cost-effective healing and light vehicles/rocket artillery.If you go mechanized the issue is you have to spend munitions on medical supplies constantly delaying your infantry upgrades and restricting how often you can use grenades, mines, and snares.
I think if you at least moved the medics to the HQ and made them cost what the previously were which I think was 150 mp 15 fuel you could go either tech and still at least have access to healing which would help Volks significantly.

Maybe make meds require one of the trucks deployed(either one) and be based on the Initial truck but i really don't know how that would work since battlegroup would have that big medic cross on top of it, but no med upgrade and would really hamper any foward HQ players(since no more heals just reinforce).

Thing is, volks unlike pretty much any other main line in the game, arent getting anything for late game.

Cons have reserves, Grens have really strong vet, Tommies and Rifles are gearing up during the game. Volks on the other hand, dont have anything past StGs.

Even their strenght comes exclusively from the StG timing, but not its perfomance.

Obersoldaten or any other call-in elites arent cutting it for OKW, so they arent miracle late game AI. Mainly because you need to vet them first and also because they cant be everywhere and most likely will be in the most important egagements.

There's absolutely no reason for Obersoldaten to have to purchase their mg34. The squad is a completely useless bleeding pig without it. It doesn't matter if they end up behind Panzer Authorization but they should come out of that Flak HQ with their mg as they used to. They are ot 6 men Paradropped squads with elite m1 carbines and neither are Guards with ptrs that can receive an upgrade to further supplement their AI capability with dp28s.

IR stg should be their own call in infantry unit as many people discussing ir stg in Smartie's commander rework thread pointed out. The cover modifier gimmick makes it quite inconsistent and should be tweaked or the weapon itself changed

There's absolutely no reason for Obersoldaten to have to purchase their mg34. The squad is a completely useless bleeding pig without it

There is an extremely good reason actually. Multiple in fact.
Originally they came WITH MG34 and had a cost of 440mp, IRSTG stacked with MG34 too.
First reason, obviously is to prevent weapon stacking.
2nd one is to make it affordable mp-wise and to not have them have 50mp reinforce cost anymore.

There is an extremely good reason actually. Multiple in fact.
Originally they came WITH MG34 and had a cost of 440mp, IRSTG stacked with MG34 too.
First reason, obviously is to prevent weapon stacking.
2nd one is to make it affordable mp-wise and to not have them have 50mp reinforce cost anymore.

Their MP cost reduction came with several nerfs to its veterancy and stats, in fact, that 440 mp unit would passively suppress any squad it engaged, a munition cost to make a 340 mp unit actually DO ANYTHING on top of further delaying the last infantry squad to reach the battlefield is totally unwarranted

Much as I loathe the STG upgrade... What about extra Stgs with tech? Maybe +1 with second truck and another if needed at panzer authorization? Could even do one with the 3rd truck too and then they would have a full 5 stgs with full tech. Or even a separate upgrade in schwere (could put the Ober lmg behind that too if you felt the need), Like I said I don't like the stgs and their design but it's something that could fix their scaling without relying entirely on vet or making them more like rifles lite with Stat buffs.

5 stgs with full tech.

Dear lord...

I'm honestly not too sure of a direct buff to the upgrade like this, might be over the top. I think it would be better just to allow upgraded Volks to pick up another weapon, which also fits the faction thematically. And the vet should be rebalanced as well just so all the time and XP it takes to get there doesn't grant weak and underwhelming abilities.

Much as I loathe the STG upgrade... What about extra Stgs with tech? Maybe +1 with second truck and another if needed at panzer authorization? Could even do one with the 3rd truck too and then they would have a full 5 stgs with full tech. Or even a separate upgrade in schwere (could put the Ober lmg behind that too if you felt the need), Like I said I don't like the stgs and their design but it's something that could fix their scaling without relying entirely on vet or making them more like rifles lite with Stat buffs.

That's just my opinion but

Volksgrenadiers
260/26
One man added (now a 6 men squad from the start)
STG 44 upgrade removed
Veterancy 4 bonus (sight range) replaced with -15% RA bonus
Veterancy 5 bonus (passive healing) replaced with -15% weapon cooldown
Sandbags replaced with Conscripts sandbags wall
Now they can pick up dropped weapons [1 slot] (obviously since there's no stg44)

Sturmpioneers
300/25
Now starts as a 5 men mp40 squad (with Assault Grenadiers MP40)
After one truck has been fully set up they can upgrade
>Assault(or whatever) upgrade 60/80 munitions
4 Panzergrens STG (more mid range oriented, previously this is what Sturm stg were before being tweaked to a more close range profile) and an unremovable minesweeper always carried by a model
>Panzerjäger(or whatever) upgrade that is the current one
>Minesweeper upgrade (mutually exclusive with Assault upgrade of course but not with Panzerjäger upgrade)

1- T3 tech timings for OKW are not off by far as well. Iirc, OKW T2 builds need to gain ~10 fuel more than USF and Soviets (UKF is cheaper depending on the side techs chosen) to tech to the "tank tier". T1 builds even out. Therefore, the P4J comes 1-1,5 minutes later than other tanks because it costs 30 fuel more. But as you said it is the best tank, so that should be fine I guess? Unless your point is about its timing, but I don't think this should be sped up without nerfing the unit.

2- My bad, I scrolled to the wrong post while writing this part and was reading Stormjagers suggestion of tying Obers to T3.

Been really busy with work, but finally got time to write a response.


The problem is when you compare it to other factions, is that at the level im playing at accounting for light vehicles is pretty much mandatory. And while t1 is viable (asiamint showed that enough) more often than not if you go t2, you're getting luchs+puma or just puma, this adds on a lot of more fuel costs than youd be dealing with otherwise. A single puma in practice in terms of timing might as well be an m20+stuart in terms of cost (yes i know its slightly more expensive like 10-20 iirc) but in terms of value the puma is literally only there to fight the two of them, while providing unsubstanial value to the rest of the army. Yet the timing hit you take for that one unit ends up biting you harder than your opponent. This goes even double when you luchs, this is partially a problem with not having a generalist choice. And when you consider those factors, even something like 1 minute difference can have some serious ripple effects.

Basically what im trying to say is this, the cost of your units are required to not only keep you a float, but to push you to an advantage (which you likely wont get) in order to pay off for the timing hits you are going to have to contend with, while your foes will always get the better timing.

That's just my opinion but

Volksgrenadiers
260/26
One man added (now a 6 men squad from the start)
STG 44 upgrade removed
Veterancy 4 bonus (sight range) replaced with -15% RA bonus
Veterancy 5 bonus (passive healing) replaced with -15% weapon cooldown
Sandbags replaced with Conscripts sandbags wall
Now they can pick up dropped weapons [1 slot] (obviously since there's no stg44)

Sturmpioneers
300/25
Now starts as a 5 men mp40 squad (with Assault Grenadiers MP40)
After one truck has been fully set up they can upgrade
>Assault(or whatever) upgrade 60/80 munitions
4 Panzergrens STG (more mid range oriented, previously this is what Sturm stg were before being tweaked to a more close range profile) and an unremovable minesweeper always carried by a model
>Panzerjäger(or whatever) upgrade that is the current one
>Minesweeper upgrade (mutually exclusive with Assault upgrade of course but not with Panzerjäger upgrade)

how about:

Volksgrenadiers
260/26
5 man still
STG 44 upgrade remains
gets a third one(STG) with panzer authorization
Veterancy 4 bonus (sight range) no change
Veterancy 5 bonus (passive healing) no change
Sandbags kept as is
Now they can pick up dropped weapons [1 slot] even with 3 stgs (because you really can`t rely on picking up enemy weapons, but if you manage you have a killer volks now)and fits with faction resource starvation/salvage

which i think would be minimal changes but would give volks a edge

Sturmpioneers
300/30
Now starts as a 4 men Gewehr 43 squad (with tweaked stats but more a mid range profile but usable close range)
After one truck has been fully set up they can upgrade
>Assault(or whatever) upgrade 50/60 munitions
3 STG (more close-mid range oriented)
>Panzerschreck 70 mun(same as now)
>Minesweeper upgrade 30 mun(same as now)
>all upgrades can be made(nothing mutually exclusive with one another)

With this i think they would not have to solely rely on ambushes on early game or retreat paths wipes, and a full upgrade would leave them with the with 2 STGs,Panzerschreck, and minesweeper or 3 STGs and minesweeper as they have with current patch.

Or instead of Gewehr 43 just adjust the initial STGs which would also be fine.

what other units? genuinely asking, cause i cant think of any other than maybe early loss and capture of a mg/vickers for OST/UKF.




Maybe make meds require one of the trucks deployed(either one) and be based on the Initial truck but i really don't know how that would work since battlegroup would have that big medic cross on top of it, but no med upgrade and would really hamper any foward HQ players(since no more heals just reinforce).

T-70, AEC, 222 to some degree. I think the AEC in particular fits the bill as it is literally the only light vehicle that UKF possess. (UC doesn't count)

Volksgrenadiers
260/26
5 man still
STG 44 upgrade remains
gets a third one(STG) with panzer authorization
Veterancy 4 bonus (sight range) no change
Veterancy 5 bonus (passive healing) no change
Sandbags kept as is
Now they can pick up dropped weapons [1 slot] even with 3 stgs (because you really can`t rely on picking up enemy weapons, but if you manage you have a killer volks now)and fits with faction resource starvation/salvage

which i think would be minimal changes but would give volks a edge

I really don't think balancing around weapons slots is a good move, weapon drops honestly aren't a good mechanic to begin with, and the sorts of weapons you might be able to "get" vary dramatically between the three allied factions.

It's also far too inconsistent.

Also: Unless there has been a very recent change I've missed, Volksgrenadiers only get two STGs.

T-70, AEC, 222 to some degree. I think the AEC in particular fits the bill as it is literally the only light vehicle that UKF possess. (UC doesn't count)



I really don't think balancing around weapons slots is a good move, weapon drops honestly aren't a good mechanic to begin with, and the sorts of weapons you might be able to "get" vary dramatically between the three allied factions.

It's also far too inconsistent.

Also: Unless there has been a very recent change I've missed, Volksgrenadiers only get two STGs.

AEC sure can set you back,but i watched and played a lot of matches where sov player just made another t-70 and made do with AT guns, just try to build another Puma to see how much that delays any Mediuns

Yes i agree weapons drops are not a consistent mechanic since it can go from a PTRS(not good) to a M1919A6(godlike) or none at all.
As for the two STGs you are rigth,as of now they only get the two,but that was my proposed change since they would get a third at the unlock of Panzer Authorization and still get a chance to pick up a dropped weapon.

Their MP cost reduction came with several nerfs to its veterancy and stats, in fact, that 440 mp unit would passively suppress any squad it engaged, a munition cost to make a 340 mp unit actually DO ANYTHING on top of further delaying the last infantry squad to reach the battlefield is totally unwarranted

No, veterancy nerfs were part of global OKW rework that has brought their economy to the level of other factions, which meant they no longer needed every single unit to be potentially super unit at the cost of having limited ammo/fuel access.

You literally have an explanation in the patch notes about splitting LMG and reasons behind it, go read it.

That's just my opinion but

Volksgrenadiers
260/26
One man added (now a 6 men squad from the start)
STG 44 upgrade removed
Veterancy 4 bonus (sight range) replaced with -15% RA bonus
Veterancy 5 bonus (passive healing) replaced with -15% weapon cooldown
Sandbags replaced with Conscripts sandbags wall
Now they can pick up dropped weapons [1 slot] (obviously since there's no stg44)

Sturmpioneers
300/25
Now starts as a 5 men mp40 squad (with Assault Grenadiers MP40)
After one truck has been fully set up they can upgrade
>Assault(or whatever) upgrade 60/80 munitions
4 Panzergrens STG (more mid range oriented, previously this is what Sturm stg were before being tweaked to a more close range profile) and an unremovable minesweeper always carried by a model
>Panzerjäger(or whatever) upgrade that is the current one
>Minesweeper upgrade (mutually exclusive with Assault upgrade of course but not with Panzerjäger upgrade)

Both way too good. The Volks-Cons/Rifle matchup is currently fine for the first few minutes. Giving them one more man will result in an easy win over Rifle and Cons. 2 more combat veterancy boni seem too good for me.

The current vet 4 and vet 5 are completely worthless though. Noone would notice any difference if both got removed. It doesnt have to be combat boni but atleast add some useful utility and not this dogshit.

The Stg upgrade is pretty lame and there are many other axis units who get Stgs. So replacing that upgrade wont make the game less interesting for sure. IDK why people want to give them even more STgs.

Dear lord...

IF something like that was actually done a rebalance of their power would be required in kind, again, i dont even like the stg upgrade to begin with, but i always throw out ideas in the hopes there might be foundation for something better (or at least more sane)

I'm honestly not too sure of a direct buff to the upgrade like this, might be over the top. I think it would be better just to allow upgraded Volks to pick up another weapon, which also fits the faction thematically. And the vet should be rebalanced as well just so all the time and XP it takes to get there doesn't grant weak and underwhelming abilities.

im not as huge fan of the extyyra slot combined with the STG, just because i already feel the stg is a nobrainer upgrade, but i definitly see the value in it, but i think that volks need something that isnt so RNG to hinge their scaling on. a vet rework imo is the bare minumum that OKW needs. slapping abilities and guns on is the same bandaid okw has got since launch

Both way too good. The Volks-Cons/Rifle matchup is currently fine for the first few minutes.

Yes, with Stg Sturmpioneers

2 more combat veterancy bonuses seem to good

They lost their weapon upgrade

No, veterancy nerfs were part of global OKW rework that has brought their economy to the level of other factions, which meant they no longer needed every single unit to be potentially super unit at the cost of having limited ammo/fuel access.

You literally have an explanation in the patch notes about splitting LMG and reasons behind it, go read it.

+1 on the money again boss

The Stg upgrade is pretty lame and there are many other axis units who get Stgs. So replacing that upgrade wont make the game less interesting for sure. IDK why people want to give them even more STgs.

Because it fits Volks thematically and historically. The 6th man upgrade is pretty goofy for a late war faction that's supposed to be resource starved, including human resources (looking at OKW popcap), the best upgrades available to Volks that fit the game and are somewhat immersive are the StG and MP40 upgrades.