Snip
That's not what's happening. But go ahead and dodge the question
All I asked is what does the 222 and IRHT have to do with the su85 vision abilities? That's all I'm asking
Should the SU85's vision ability be nerfed/removed
25 Mar 2021, 10:20 AM
#41
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
That's not what's happening. But go ahead and dodge the question
All I asked is what does the 222 and IRHT have to do with the su85 vision abilities? That's all I'm asking
25 Mar 2021, 10:23 AM
#42
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
To be fair the IRHT has been nerfed so hard its effectively been removed from the game so its not a great metric.
Yes it has been nerfed because its sight was considered to be a problem although sight is all what the unit brings.
If the sight of IRHT was problem having a TD with access to superior sight is actually a bigger issue.
25 Mar 2021, 10:26 AM
#43
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Yes it has been nerfed because its sight was considered to be a problem although sight is all what the unit brings.
If the sight of IRHT was problem having a TD with access to superior sight is actually a bigger issue.
Literally everyone knows IRHT sight was -NOT- a problem.
Mechanic behind that sight and what it caused was.
Stop misleading everyone.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Mar 2021, 11:31 AM
#46
Posts: 570 | Subs: 1
The vet ability was nerfed years ago to prevent exactly that.
Looks like you haven't used that combination in at least 2 years and with focused sight, its even less now if you try to stack.
The sheer confidence of just being wrong lmfao.
25 Mar 2021, 11:43 AM
#47
Posts: 1563
Even a Puma can flank and easily kill an unguarded SU-85, it needs extended vision.Guess what a T70(AEC would be a better comparison) can also flank and easily kill things like stugs and JP4's. Thats not really grounds for needing less combined arms.
25 Mar 2021, 11:52 AM
#48
Posts: 1003
Guess what a T70(AEC would be a better comparison) can also flank and easily kill things like stugs and JP4's. Thats not really grounds for needing less combined arms.
So Su85 get instead selfstun abillity, or non-doc camo?
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
25 Mar 2021, 11:54 AM
#49
Posts: 1563
Sure why not. Though then IL2 AT strafe might get nerfed to death if su85 gets stun.
So Su85 get instead selfstun abillity, or non-doc camo?
25 Mar 2021, 12:19 PM
#50
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Guess what a T70(AEC would be a better comparison) can also flank and easily kill things like stugs and JP4's. Thats not really grounds for needing less combined arms.
T-70 takes ages to kill 222 and you are trying to tell us it can "easily kill" stug that deflects 50% of T-70 shots of the rear armor?
Yeah, AEC would be a better comparison, because T-70 is beyond horrible one.
But sure, if tracking is such a problem, I'll gladly replace it with something like TWP, aimed shot, thread shot or ambush camo instead, because that would be balanced.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Mar 2021, 15:53 PM
#52
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
That's not what's happening. But go ahead and dodge the question
All I asked is what does the 222 and IRHT have to do with the su85 vision abilities? That's all I'm asking
Actually this is the first time you ask this question.
Not allot.
And that is my point a TD like SU-85 should have as vet 1 an ability suited for a TD and not a reckon vehicle.
25 Mar 2021, 15:55 PM
#53
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Literally everyone knows IRHT sight was -NOT- a problem.
Mechanic behind that sight and what it caused was.
Stop misleading everyone.
Removing the IRHT ability was a correct change.
Allowing SU-85 to have better vision the IRHT with combination of focus sight and tracking is simply not justified.
I have not mislead anyone.
25 Mar 2021, 16:35 PM
#54
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Actually this is the first time you ask this question.
Not true, he asked it here even literally.
25 Mar 2021, 16:48 PM
#55
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Yes it has been nerfed because its sight was considered to be a problem although sight is all what the unit brings.
If the sight of IRHT was problem having a TD with access to superior sight is actually a bigger issue.
The Uhu was changed because of a game breaking and unfixable bug.
How is that related to the SU-85's sight?
25 Mar 2021, 17:37 PM
#56
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The Uhu was changed because of a game breaking and unfixable bug.
How is that related to the SU-85's sight?
I have already said that fixing the "bug" was a correct change.
When IRHT was changed from "scanning" (which one more is completely irrelevant to this as I have already said)to sight there was preview, testing and debate as to how much the IRHT's reckon capability should reduced from 120 that it was. We ended up with sight 35 and tunnel vision of 80 because if it had more it was considered "OP".
I find it strange that having SU-85 achieving better sight even temporarily by focus sight/tracking is not considered an issue even thou IRHT sole purpose is reckon.
That is why I have suggest that "tracking" which is an ability better suited for a reckon unit should be removed from SU-85 and Focus sight become a timed vet 1 ability.
25 Mar 2021, 17:43 PM
#57
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Not true, he asked it here even literally.
Them that this is misunderstanding because for me when someone ask me a question it end in question mark.
The question make little sense to me. If "tracking" was available lets say to T-70 there would be a point to compare with 222 "infatry awareness".
The ability should simply not be available to SU-85 which is TD. Being actually better "infatry awareness" is simply the icing on the cake.
25 Mar 2021, 18:44 PM
#58
Posts: 1289
Them that this is misunderstanding because for me when someone ask me a question it end in question mark.
The question make little sense to me. If "tracking" was available lets say to T-70 there would be a point to compare with 222 "infatry awareness".
The ability should simply not be available to SU-85 which is TD. Being actually better "infatry awareness" is simply the icing on the cake.
The su85 has no ai to speak off. Tracking revaels inf on the minimap a unit it cant hope to fight by itself.
It also extends sight yes but popping on focused sight during tracking stacks vision forward but slows it down meaning you cant chase or escape as well as you cant just switch it off imedeatly. At best it allows you to get an extra shot off and reveal some inf on the minimap, nothing game breaking.
All other td's have something unique besides their vet. Su85 has a secondary ability at vet 0 like most soviet vehicles. Just because its a td doesnt make it a or a good reason it should loose any abilitie it currently has.
25 Mar 2021, 19:09 PM
#59
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The su85 has no ai to speak off.
Most TDs have little or not AI also.
Tracking revaels inf on the minimap a unit it cant hope to fight by itself.
Tracking shows infatry and support weapons including Paks even beyond their max range, as an icing on the case it even show cloaked units like sniper.
This is an ability suited for reckon vehicle not a TD.
It also extends sight yes but popping on focused sight during tracking stacks vision forward but slows it down meaning you cant chase or escape as well as you cant just switch it off imedeatly. At best it allows you to get an extra shot off and reveal some inf on the minimap, nothing game breaking.
That is not a very accurate description of the ability and an "extra" shot can make quite all the difference.
One can use tracking without focus sight on. Then one not only get info about the position of infatry that can snare and paks but also provide 360 vision even on the move allowing the unit to basically self spot for extended range.
One can combine focus sight and tracking and get extra vision than most reckon vehicles.
All other td's have something unique besides their vet. Su85 has a secondary ability at vet 0 like most soviet vehicles. Just because its a td doesnt make it a or a good reason it should loose any abilitie it currently has.
The ability does not fit the role of a TD and combination of the 2 abilities is simply broken.
If the unit actually need something although is great TD (and imo it fine with having "focus sight" as timed vet 1 ability) it can get an ability that is better suited for a TD.
25 Mar 2021, 20:32 PM
#60
Posts: 5279
Yes it has been nerfed because its sight was considered to be a problem although sight is all what the unit brings.
which is why i belive the unit was neutered. it no longer brings anything to the table and if it was flat out removed it would see n o less useage than its current form. it needws abilities or some sort of SOMETHING to justify evr building. even an aura of 1.01 accuracy buff would bring more to the table than it does now
If the sight of IRHT was problem having a TD with access to superior sight is actually a bigger issue.
there is more to the equation than that and you know it. the old IRHT wasnt just sight, it was literally seeing through sight blockers. it was also cheaper than dirt and some of its cost could be reclaimed if it was killed.
i AGREE the su85 shouldn't self spot, but lets not pretend that the problems with the units are transferable.
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