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Ostheer Commander Revamp 2021

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Katitof
28 Mar 2021, 11:17 AM
#61
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 11:14 AMKiwiBirb
Tiger Ace rework

While not necessary balance wise, this would help the Tiger ace and the 2 commanders it is in be far more unique, preventing them from being so similar to the other tiger commanders.

Right now, the Tiger ace is very similar to the normal tiger. For a slightly higher price, you get Blitzkrieg by default, can survive one more shot, can use emergency repairs and at vet2 suppression and longer sight range through spearhead.
This rework differentiates the Tiger Ace from the Tiger by focusing the Tiger ace on anti tank, as compared to the generalist Tiger. I think this also fits the name better, as Tiger aces were aces for the number of tanks they destroyed.

Rework:
Main gun AOE removed
Range increased to 50
“Blitzkrieg tactics” removed
“Spearhead” replaced with “overwatch”
Overwatch:
Requires veterancy 1
Locks turret to 90* frontal arc
Disables firing on the move
Decrease max speed and acceleration
Increases range 60.

Emergency repairs changed to require veterancy 2


That's an elephant with extra steppes.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Aradan
28 Mar 2021, 11:21 AM
#62
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 11:14 AMKiwiBirb
Tiger Ace rework

While not necessary balance wise, this would help the Tiger ace and the 2 commanders it is in be far more unique, preventing them from being so similar to the other tiger commanders.

Right now, the Tiger ace is very similar to the normal tiger. For a slightly higher price, you get Blitzkrieg by default, can survive one more shot, can use emergency repairs and at vet2 suppression and longer sight range through spearhead.
This rework differentiates the Tiger Ace from the Tiger by focusing the Tiger ace on anti tank, as compared to the generalist Tiger. I think this also fits the name better, as Tiger aces were aces for the number of tanks they destroyed.

Rework:
Main gun AOE removed
Range increased to 50
“Blitzkrieg tactics” removed
“Spearhead” replaced with “overwatch”
Overwatch:
Requires veterancy 1
Locks turret to 90* frontal arc
Disables firing on the move
Decrease max speed and acceleration
Increases range 60.

Emergency repairs changed to require veterancy 2



This will counter all allies TDs and tanks. Insane OP.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
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KiwiBirb
28 Mar 2021, 11:22 AM
#63
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 11:17 AMKatitof

That's an elephant with extra steppes.


Well, the current tiger ace is just the tiger with extra steps, though I digress.

As I was designing this rework, it never occurred to me that I was doing this though. I wanted to make the Tiger ace AT focused, but that required some sort of vulnerability, which I figured to make being flanked.

Which is the exact design philosophy of the Elephant. Henceforth the similarity.
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them

and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
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Vipper
28 Mar 2021, 11:22 AM
#64
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 11:14 AMKiwiBirb
Tiger Ace rework...

That might work and will increase the difference between the two unit.

My suggestions about the Tiger was abit different.

Ability remained to "Panzer ACE". Ability now call in (or build a) a Panzer Ace which a better version Stug-E (with more abilites) once the unit reaches vet 2(-3) the unit can be refitted (with additional cost) for Stug-G that can also be refitted for PzIv (or straight to Tiger). Each time a unit is being refitted when the ACE is lost the highest version of the vehicle can be called in.
:)
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KiwiBirb
28 Mar 2021, 11:24 AM
#65
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 11:21 AMAradan


This will counter all allies TDs and tanks. Insane OP.


Note that the overwatch ability makes it so that the tiger can’t fire to the side or rear, and cannot fire while turning or moving. So if even a Sherman got behind it the tiger would be dead

Though as Kaitof pointed out I literally just created an elephant with extra steps, so kinda pointless.
Idk how I didn’t notice that
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them

and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
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Katitof
28 Mar 2021, 11:31 AM
#66
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 11:22 AMKiwiBirb


Well, the current tiger ace is just the tiger with extra steps.

Because there weren't magical tigers with reinforced hitlerium plating and wunderwaffe gun, they were regular tigers with better then average crew.

And you have abilities that support that well tacked to it.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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LSDuffy
28 Mar 2021, 12:47 PM
#67
avatar of LSDuffy

Posts: 117

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 11:31 AMKatitof

Because there weren't magical tigers with reinforced hitlerium plating and wunderwaffe gun, they were regular tigers with better then average crew.

And you have abilities that support that well tacked to it.


+1 nice work boss
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KiwiBirb
28 Mar 2021, 12:51 PM
#68
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 11:31 AMKatitof

Because there weren't magical tigers with reinforced hitlerium plating and wunderwaffe gun, they were regular tigers with better then average crew.

And you have abilities that support that well tacked to it.


True, but why do you bring this up?
My rework did not involve hitlerium plating (more health) or wunderwaffe gun? Just increased range, which is realistic as an experienced crew, especially an ace crew, would be better at gunnery?


In any case I think my Tiger ace rework idea is debunked as too similar to elephant.
Do you have any feed back on my commander rework ideas? You are usually able to find flaws pretty easily. I am wondering if any of my ideas make any commanders OP.
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them

and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
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ZeroZeroNi
29 Mar 2021, 05:04 AM
#69
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Hey what about a repair bunker for German Mechanized doc.
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Letzte Bataillon
29 Mar 2021, 06:13 AM
#70
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

Smoke Bombs should not provide sight.
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ZeroZeroNi
29 Mar 2021, 07:21 AM
#71
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 06:13 AMLetzte Bataillon
Smoke Bombs should not provide sight.

But the ability is called Smoke RECON run.
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ZeroZeroNi
29 Mar 2021, 07:33 AM
#72
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Hey, can we get more tweaks to 5-man gren. The last patch nerfed it too much. i don't know some more adjustments to their st44 and maybe 5% ra bonus would be nice. At this stage they loose to single bar'd rifle men at all ranges despite only costing 10 mp less. while svt cons have no trouble fighting lmg ober from short range.
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Katitof
29 Mar 2021, 07:34 AM
#73
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 07:33 AMZeroZeroNi
Hey, can we get more tweaks to 5-man gren. The last patch nerfed it too much. i don't know some more adjustments to their st44 and maybe 5% ra bonus would be nice. At this stage they loose to single bar'd rifle men at all ranges despite only costing 10 mp less. while svt cons have no trouble fighting lmg ober from short range.

Single bar rifles are still greater investment and the fact they won prior to patch is a testament to how much above their weight have they punched.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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ZeroZeroNi
29 Mar 2021, 08:07 AM
#74
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 07:34 AMKatitof

Single bar rifles are still greater investment and the fact they won prior to patch is a testament to how much above their weight have they punched.

Look, you can't factor side tech into squad cost. Because rax doesn't only benefit rifles it also benefit every other infantry type that have weapon slots. I don't get why allied players think side tech is a huge disadvantage cause it's not. It doesn't even hamper teching anymore hell allied teching is less expensive compared to ost ones. So where the FUCK is your fuel going???
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Tygrys
29 Mar 2021, 08:22 AM
#75
avatar of Tygrys

Posts: 103

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 08:07 AMZeroZeroNi

Look, you can't factor side tech into squad cost. Because rax doesn't only benefit rifles it also benefit every other infantry type that have weapon slots. I don't get why allied players think side tech is a huge disadvantage cause it's not. It doesn't even hamper teching anymore hell allied teching is less expensive compared to ost ones. So where the FUCK is your fuel going???


You suddenly forgot weapon racks cost fuel too?
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Mr Carmine
29 Mar 2021, 08:34 AM
#76
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 08:07 AMZeroZeroNi

Look, you can't factor side tech into squad cost. Because rax doesn't only benefit rifles it also benefit every other infantry type that have weapon slots. I don't get why allied players think side tech is a huge disadvantage cause it's not. It doesn't even hamper teching anymore hell allied teching is less expensive compared to ost ones. So where the FUCK is your fuel going???


You cant count the full rack prise to rifles or sections, as you say other units benefit from it giving much flexibility. However sidetech is still a delay or risk with a fuel cost however tiny. You cant ignore it either.
Same with people slamming the 30 mp ontop of the gren squad price next to the 60 munitions, the vsl gives more then just hp to a high power long range squad, free healing is very strong in terms of field presence. The muni you can save more then makes up for the 30 mp you pay for the vsl.
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Katitof
29 Mar 2021, 08:46 AM
#77
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 08:07 AMZeroZeroNi

Look, you can't factor side tech into squad cost. Because rax doesn't only benefit rifles it also benefit every other infantry type that have weapon slots. I don't get why allied players think side tech is a huge disadvantage cause it's not. It doesn't even hamper teching anymore hell allied teching is less expensive compared to ost ones. So where the FUCK is your fuel going???

If you don't want to factor in costs of racks, you can't factor in costs of reinforcing that 5th gren.
Sorry, no double standards.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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C3 TOOTH
29 Mar 2021, 09:08 AM
#78
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 05:04 AMZeroZeroNi
Hey what about a repair bunker for German Mechanized doc.

Sounds like a good idea. Ost currently has lowest repairing options.
If there are 4 Ost in 4v4 play, there would be always at least 40pop for Pion. Soviet can fulfill with repair post from Industrial commander.
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Vipper
29 Mar 2021, 09:10 AM
#79
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

5 men grenadier cost 270 manpower/ 60 munition, that same way 7 men conscripts cost 258 / 50 munition.

That is a simple fact.
:)
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Katitof
29 Mar 2021, 09:36 AM
#80
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 09:10 AMVipper
5 men grenadier cost 270 manpower/ 60 munition, that same way 7 men conscripts cost 258 / 50 munition.

That is a simple fact.

Timing is also a measurement of units strength and potency and 7 man cons arrive much later then 5 man grens.

That is a simple fact.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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