i hope to see cp4 comes out 1.5min earlier, vet up 25% faster. at every vet levels, +10% aura range, maxing at +30% aura range. or have a vet ability to toggle/immobile +30% aura.
somewhat along these lines. so late game cp4 is more defensive like 222 or t70.
no need big rework but keep the flavor
Two Forgotten and bad OST abilities
17 Mar 2021, 01:14 AM
#21
Posts: 1794
17 Mar 2021, 01:25 AM
#22
Posts: 356
It'd be nice to see a few early 'sighting' rounds on the mortar barrage that deal maybe 10-20% of health's worth of guaranteed damage, but then again it'd be nice to see this for most arty strikes.
I've been meaning to do a long thread on muntions economy, and the all or nothing nature of arty strikes really messes with their 'fun' level IMO. While counterplay is definitely a necessary part of the game, I don't think that such expensive abilities should have the option to be 100% dodged.
I think all but the super heavy artillery strikes like railway should have some level of guaranteed damage like skill planes in order to help disperse mid and late game armies, and reward doctrine choice.
I've been meaning to do a long thread on muntions economy, and the all or nothing nature of arty strikes really messes with their 'fun' level IMO. While counterplay is definitely a necessary part of the game, I don't think that such expensive abilities should have the option to be 100% dodged.
I think all but the super heavy artillery strikes like railway should have some level of guaranteed damage like skill planes in order to help disperse mid and late game armies, and reward doctrine choice.
17 Mar 2021, 06:10 AM
#23
Posts: 1563
LAB is fine the way it is. A cheap and cost effective way to dislocate enemy support weapons. Especially good to use in conjunction with an armor push to scatter enemy ATGs.
Command P4 will be addressed in the upcoming patch.
What do you guys have in mind for command p4. maybe an pintle mg???
17 Mar 2021, 13:55 PM
#24
Posts: 309
If CP4 came with armour skirts I think that would be a good addition
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17 Mar 2021, 14:05 PM
#25
Posts: 5279
Cp4 is plagued by the same problem that has plagued officer units in the past. It's a powerful force multiplier at the cost of any singular value from the unit itself. I truly hope that it follows suit from the other officers and becomes a unit that is worthwhile AND a command unit.
Buff the main gun-its trash. Making it like the stub dick stug in terms of output makes it a formidable early AI unit, adjust rof to keep it balanced if needed.
Scrap the perma- Aura and give it dynamic active abilities: a strafe or smoke shell. Give it abilities that increase moving accuracy and received accuracy of nearby units or specific units.
Perhaps shared vet, if required.
The bottom line is make the UNIT good and the command aspect a bonus that scales with the player, like the arty officer and the Sturm officers and the commisar does now.
Buff the main gun-its trash. Making it like the stub dick stug in terms of output makes it a formidable early AI unit, adjust rof to keep it balanced if needed.
Scrap the perma- Aura and give it dynamic active abilities: a strafe or smoke shell. Give it abilities that increase moving accuracy and received accuracy of nearby units or specific units.
Perhaps shared vet, if required.
The bottom line is make the UNIT good and the command aspect a bonus that scales with the player, like the arty officer and the Sturm officers and the commisar does now.
#stalinwept
17 Mar 2021, 14:10 PM
#26
Posts: 311
If CP4 came with armour skirts I think that would be a good addition
+1
Armour skirts would be a good add.
Also a Scout Plane ability, like the one on the new Infrared HT.
17 Mar 2021, 14:20 PM
#27
Posts: 3118 | Subs: 2
CP4 and OST P4 AI capabilities are almost identical. What the CP4 does not have is AT, that's what is being used to "pay" for the aura.
Edit:
Overall, I don't think the CP4 is that bad of a unit at the moment. It is just sometimes very odd to use. If you have 50 POP invested into infantry (which is low-normal) and invest into a CP4, you have about 38 POP to play with (usually slightly less).
I can't really speak of 1v1, but in team games you need to subtract an additional Panzerwerfer which brings you down to 26 POP at most. So you can get either a Panther and more infantry, or 2 P4s. I personally am usually not sure if I really want this unit when the only benefit is that two other units on the field survive a little better. Because you pay with quite a bit of micro and lose a lot of punch compared to a normal P4. I usually tend to play the way I am most familiar with and get a normal P4 instead (or invest 2-6 POP more into a T4 unit).
17 Mar 2021, 15:42 PM
#28
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
LAB is fine.
CPIV is getting reworked
As far as OH abilities goes:
Units arriving in bundle are not generally good so i would just remove the Gren/PG from the 250HT.
MAYBE the Gren version makes a little more sense in the Assault Gren commander.
Relief infantry.
Osstruppen reserves where always "eh" even in Mobile defense meta.
Not sure how shitty is the Stuka flame bomb barrage
I do hope they don't give Mechanized Assault the straight up 250 from Infantry though... I feel like the clown car cheese with early Ass Grens would just be toxic. +1 To Relief Infantry and Stuka Flame Run getting fixed. I would also suggest reworking the medical crate drop - maybe reduce the cost and have it drop one crate. Dropping 3 crates is too hard to use near the frontline because you rarely use them fast enough to not run risk of them getting stolen and dropping them at base is pointless when it's much more efficient to build a healing bunker. Med kits are also omni-present in OST and dirt cheap now... so you really need to work the buff angle to make the ability usefull.
17 Mar 2021, 15:52 PM
#29
Posts: 1958
CP4 and OST P4 AI capabilities are almost identical. What the CP4 does not have is AT, that's what is being used to "pay" for the aura.
Edit:
Overall, I don't think the CP4 is that bad of a unit at the moment. It is just sometimes very odd to use. If you have 50 POP invested into infantry (which is low-normal) and invest into a CP4, you have about 38 POP to play with (usually slightly less).
I can't really speak of 1v1, but in team games you need to subtract an additional Panzerwerfer which brings you down to 26 POP at most. So you can get either a Panther and more infantry, or 2 P4s. I personally am usually not sure if I really want this unit when the only benefit is that two other units on the field survive a little better. Because you pay with quite a bit of micro and lose a lot of punch compared to a normal P4. I usually tend to play the way I am most familiar with and get a normal P4 instead (or invest 2-6 POP more into a T4 unit).
This is the problem with it for me. It doesn't add enough survivability to anything to justify not being able to bring in a second Panther. It costs every as much as a regular P4 with roughly the same AI and much worse AT. Give it recon and mark target then I'd be happy with it, at least until somebody discovers there is a second Elefant doctrine and starts asking for nerfs again....
17 Mar 2021, 16:26 PM
#30
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I do hope they don't give Mechanized Assault the straight up 250 from Infantry though... I feel like the clown car cheese with early Ass Grens would just be toxic. +1 To Relief Infantry and Stuka Flame Run getting fixed. I would also suggest reworking the medical crate drop - maybe reduce the cost and have it drop one crate. Dropping 3 crates is too hard to use near the frontline because you rarely use them fast enough to not run risk of them getting stolen and dropping them at base is pointless when it's much more efficient to build a healing bunker. Med kits are also omni-present in OST and dirt cheap now... so you really need to work the buff angle to make the ability usefull.
That's the reason that i think swapping the PG for a Gren would make more sense for the Assault Gren commander and you can usually skip T1.
I don't have the timings in my head, but i think the Pio flamer is still a better option regardless of having AssG.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
17 Mar 2021, 20:10 PM
#31
Posts: 5279
CP4 and OST P4 AI capabilities are almost identical. What the CP4 does not have is AT, that's what is being used to "pay" for the aura.
Edit:
Overall, I don't think the CP4 is that bad of a unit at the moment. It is just sometimes very odd to use. If you have 50 POP invested into infantry (which is low-normal) and invest into a CP4, you have about 38 POP to play with (usually slightly less).
I can't really speak of 1v1, but in team games you need to subtract an additional Panzerwerfer which brings you down to 26 POP at most. So you can get either a Panther and more infantry, or 2 P4s. I personally am usually not sure if I really want this unit when the only benefit is that two other units on the field survive a little better. Because you pay with quite a bit of micro and lose a lot of punch compared to a normal P4. I usually tend to play the way I am most familiar with and get a normal P4 instead (or invest 2-6 POP more into a T4 unit).
That's why I suggest going all in and making its gun good at AI instead of average. Make it worthwhile and complement the other units in the roster instead of compete with them poorly.
Maybe give it munitions ability that is HEAT shells or something that gives it a wee bit more AT bite, at a cost if needed.
#stalinwept
17 Mar 2021, 21:04 PM
#32
Posts: 1594
Command P4 will be addressed in the upcoming patch.
I'm interested in seeing what changes you guys have in store for the thing. I know exactly what I'd like to happen with it, but I'm expecting mostly number tweaks.
Can we expect to see any preliminary patchnotes in the nearish future, or is there still a lot of iteration/design work to do before you guys are even closed to finished with the Commander Patch? I always love reading through the notes.
That's the reason that i think swapping the PG for a Gren would make more sense for the Assault Gren commander and you can usually skip T1.
I don't have the timings in my head, but i think the Pio flamer is still a better option regardless of having AssG.
Ehhhh, I'd still really rather they just did away with "bundle" abilities like that. It's terribly limiting to force you to receive an unit you simply do not want in order to get one that you do. The fact they gave USF Transfer Orders last patch leads me to believe the Balans Teem is in agreement, and we might see these poorly designed abilities be reworked.
17 Mar 2021, 22:12 PM
#33
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I'm interested in seeing what changes you guys have in store for the thing. I know exactly what I'd like to happen with it, but I'm expecting mostly number tweaks.
Can we expect to see any preliminary patchnotes in the nearish future, or is there still a lot of iteration/design work to do before you guys are even closed to finished with the Commander Patch? I always love reading through the notes.
Ehhhh, I'd still really rather they just did away with "bundle" abilities like that. It's terribly limiting to force you to receive an unit you simply do not want in order to get one that you do. The fact they gave USF Transfer Orders last patch leads me to believe the Balans Teem is in agreement, and we might see these poorly designed abilities be reworked.
Assault Guards HT, 250 Gren and PG should be changed but in case that's not possible i think that swapping the Gren one with the PG one makes sense.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Mar 2021, 00:33 AM
#34
Posts: 5279
Assault Guards HT, 250 Gren and PG should be changed but in case that's not possible i think that swapping the Gren one with the PG one makes sense.
Funny enough, I think they should be the gren one, not the pgren one and I'll tell ya why:
Pgrens are inevitable.
Grens are skipable.
Just like the guard halftrack is meh because you can just build the HT, you can build pgrens even if you decided to skip all buildings but t4
the grens also iirc come with a lmg, so the lost manpower is gained by munitions (in the pgren v gren HTs)
One might also consider 5 man grens, or storm troopers, but pgrens is the last thing I'd like to see in the HT, because like I said, if you want em... Just build em
#stalinwept
18 Mar 2021, 01:50 AM
#35
Posts: 319
Give Command PIV HEAT shell ability so it has a anti-tank timed window, adjust to taste.
18 Mar 2021, 11:22 AM
#36
Posts: 3118 | Subs: 2
For the CP4 I'd say either reduce the POP cost (maybe 10?) or - my favourite - add utility.
Like an actual commander that increases sight range (not sure if it can be done model wise), some focus fire ability vs infantry or mark vehicle vs tanks (will probably need to be removed form the Elefant commander then), recon or smoke shell or something similar. Even some "inspire" ability or so would fit nicely.
Only one of these obviously, not the whole set
Like an actual commander that increases sight range (not sure if it can be done model wise), some focus fire ability vs infantry or mark vehicle vs tanks (will probably need to be removed form the Elefant commander then), recon or smoke shell or something similar. Even some "inspire" ability or so would fit nicely.
Only one of these obviously, not the whole set
18 Mar 2021, 14:58 PM
#37
Posts: 311
For the CP4 I'd say either reduce the POP cost (maybe 10?) or - my favourite - add utility.
Like an actual commander that increases sight range (not sure if it can be done model wise), some focus fire ability vs infantry or mark vehicle vs tanks (will probably need to be removed form the Elefant commander then), recon or smoke shell or something similar. Even some "inspire" ability or so would fit nicely.
Only one of these obviously, not the whole set
+1
But Comm P4 needs more than one buff (or new ability) to be useful.
18 Mar 2021, 15:11 PM
#38
Posts: 1594
Funny enough, I think they should be the gren one, not the pgren one and I'll tell ya why:
Pgrens are inevitable.
Grens are skipable.
Just like the guard halftrack is meh because you can just build the HT, you can build pgrens even if you decided to skip all buildings but t4
the grens also iirc come with a lmg, so the lost manpower is gained by munitions (in the pgren v gren HTs)
One might also consider 5 man grens, or storm troopers, but pgrens is the last thing I'd like to see in the HT, because like I said, if you want em... Just build em
The issue is more that you
A: Don't always want Grens or Pgrens in certain builds, so even the initial HT could well give you an unit you simply do not need/want when all you are really desiring is the HT.
B: If you want to rebuild the HT for any reason you are /forced/ into having an extra infantry squad alongside.
All nondoc units come singly, not paired with some other unit, for precisely these reasons. The only nondoctrinal equivalent to this is the USF officers granted from tech, and the Balance team realised that this limits people, and so gave USF the Transfer Orders ability.
Honestly, another solution would be to just give /every/ faction the ability to force their own units to leave the field, then you could keep the bundles, but allow a player to tell the extra squad to fuck off. I'm not 100% on why this isnt already available to all factions.
18 Mar 2021, 20:31 PM
#39
Posts: 5279
The issue is more that you
A: Don't always want Grens or Pgrens in certain builds, so even the initial HT could well give you an unit you simply do not need/want when all you are really desiring is the HT.
B: If you want to rebuild the HT for any reason you are /forced/ into having an extra infantry squad alongside.
All nondoc units come singly, not paired with some other unit, for precisely these reasons. The only nondoctrinal equivalent to this is the USF officers granted from tech, and the Balance team realised that this limits people, and so gave USF the Transfer Orders ability.
Honestly, another solution would be to just give /every/ faction the ability to force their own units to leave the field, then you could keep the bundles, but allow a player to tell the extra squad to fuck off. I'm not 100% on why this isnt already available to all factions.
I agree with you on all accounts, I'm just saying that if it IS to remain coupled, both should be grens not pgrens due to accessibility.
Grens are the only lads that can be skipped so there COULD be value found there in fast teching pgrens and using the HT with grens to afford you a snare a little later.
Its possible to not have access to grens (though it's not hard to get em ileven if you did skip T1) but it's impossible to not have access to pgrens is all I'm sayin.
#stalinwept
18 Mar 2021, 20:39 PM
#40
Posts: 1594
I agree with you on all accounts, I'm just saying that if it IS to remain coupled, both should be grens not pgrens due to accessibility.
Grens are the only lads that can be skipped so there COULD be value found there in fast teching pgrens and using the HT with grens to afford you a snare a little later.
Its possible to not have access to grens (though it's not hard to get em ileven if you did skip T1) but it's impossible to not have access to pgrens is all I'm sayin.
Ah, fair enough. I can see your point, though I do hope they just outright change all these abilities to not be bundles. Even if they did change both to Grens (Which I would agree to be an "improvement"), the benefit in a tiny minority of cases is still far outweighed by the negatives in the vast majority of cases.
Don't you need Tier 1 up to have access to the Grenadier's Panzerfaust, by the way? If so, you're still going to have to build tier 1 to be able to really use the Grens you get from the HT callins, so it's not even a huge benefit in THAT scenario.
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SHOUT IT OUT!
LimaOscarMike: My laptop can't even run COH3. Should I get them on my Series X or is it dead yet?
Last Saturday, 05:10 AM
Last Saturday, 05:10 AM
Rosbone: One of my last major gripes about Coh3. Price is still too high I feel for growth. But progress is always good.
Last Saturday, 04:43 AM
Last Saturday, 04:43 AM
Rosbone: I am not 100% sure but I think Relic actually fixed up the skirmish menus a little last patch. If so, thank you and keep it coming.
Last Saturday, 04:39 AM
Last Saturday, 04:39 AM
Osinyagov: Suddenly, coh2 is slowly dying, but you can play it, playerbase still big enough
09 Apr 2025, 17:00 PM
09 Apr 2025, 17:00 PM
SupremeStefan: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3457737797
04 Apr 2025, 12:42 PM
04 Apr 2025, 12:42 PM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone not dead yet. when that happens the font will switch to Papyrus 
02 Apr 2025, 00:16 AM
02 Apr 2025, 00:16 AM
aerafield: yeah I already prepared my "Can't believe there's comic mode for the 10 daily visitors even on this April 1st" 
01 Apr 2025, 20:29 PM
01 Apr 2025, 20:29 PM
Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
01 Apr 2025, 02:36 AM
01 Apr 2025, 02:36 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy 
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. 
.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
.24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! 
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. 
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
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