Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes

For the record the Calliope has always been a 3 shots to kill with 480 health. Recently it was changed to 400 to make it more vulnerable to counter/offmap barrages and the Stuka Dive Bomb.

I would personally keep its lethality

Oh, boy. So team games will remain complete cancer then.

Putting royal arty or usf urban assault in one bag with jager armor is brainless.

Imagine usf with at gun only in one commander and then cry that usf players only use this one commander.

-Would like to see a way for USF to be viable in team games without Tactical Support or Urban Assault.


Soviet Industry: replace KV8 with T34/85 or KV1. This commander is clearly supposed to be armour orientated but the t34-76 doesn't cut the mustard in team games. Also the fuel drop ability is pretty useless.

Soviet Industry: replace KV8 with T34/85 or KV1. This commander is clearly supposed to be armour orientated but the t34-76 doesn't cut the mustard in team games. Also the fuel drop ability is pretty useless.

I'd also like to see the Crew Repairs replaced with something else. It's pretty goofy to have both that and the repair stations in the same commander.

The fuel ability would be fine if they decreased the likelihood that it would be shot down. That's the only problem really.

A bit on Fear Propaganda Artillery and why it should get a little touch-up.

There are 8 rounds in the Fear Propaganda Artillery barrage. Each round has a chance to do one of the following to any enemy infantry unit within area of effect (this is decided per unit, not per round, so units in AoE can get different effects):

- 35% to slow the enemy down for 30 seconds (basically makes infantry walk instead of run, though if the infantry is sprinting due to some ability, it will run instead);
- 30% to apply 1 suppression to the enemy every 2 seconds for 6 seconds total (this is what causes affected units to periodically switch between being suppressed and pinned);
- 10% to force retreat;
- 25% to do nothing.

The chance of entire barrage doing nothing is miniscule, though it can delay one of the other effects for a round (or two, if you are unlucky). The usefulness of slowdown is debatable - it can lead to wipes on retreat if enemy tries to soft-pedal away, but most of the time it will cause a retreat anyway.

Best thing about Fear Propaganda though is how bizarrely it interacts with anti-tank guns, which normally are prime targets for almost any off-map artillery (if only to force them to reposition).

Most know that AT guns they are immune to suppression, so the chance of rolling "no effect" for them effectively goes from 25% to 55%. The slowdown effect is applied as posture_speed_modifier, which doesn't affect AT guns (all other team weapons are affected normally). As such, the "no effect" for AT guns goes up to whopping 90%.

You may think "dang, that's a crappy way to spend 80 munitions for no effect on AT guns, since they can't retreat either, right?". Hilariously enough, Fear Propaganda is the only ability in the game that can force AT guns to retreat. If you're lucky enough and any of the 8 rounds rolls "forced retreat", your enemy will have to helplessly watch their AT guns march all the way to their base. They still get x0.5 received accuracy, but don't get the speed bonus of infantry and other team weapons.

Additionally, I think there might've been a mix-up between singleplayer and multiplier weapon profiles of Fear Propaganda at some point in time. Currently, it uses "off_map_propaganda_artillery" while "off_map_propaganda_artillery_mp" exists. These two are almost identical, the key difference being that "mp" variant also applies x2 received accuracy on slowdown. The live version checks for existence of singleplayer upgrades on infantry for the forced retreat effect, so that's potentially another evidence of the mix-up.

So yeah, it probably could use a pinch of modernization.

The chance of entire barrage doing nothing is miniscule.

I honestly kinda disagree with this perspective. While defensivly this ability might be a bit lacklaster, offensively its great.

Pretty much any of the rolled effect, during your offensive will almost always garantee you with either wipes or retreats.

Slowed down inf cant doudge grenade and can be run down by tanks, suppresed inf wont dodge\attack. So offensively this ability is one of the strongest.

Oh, boy. So team games will remain complete cancer then.

Actually doctrinal rocket arty makes team games less cancerous. Just imagine stuka zu fuss in doctrine if u still dont get it.

I honestly kinda disagree with this perspective. While defensivly this ability might be a bit lacklaster, offensively its great.

Pretty much any of the rolled effect, during your offensive will almost always garantee you with either wipes or retreats.

Slowed down inf cant doudge grenade and can be run down by tanks, suppresed inf wont dodge\attack. So offensively this ability is one of the strongest.

I think you misunderstood what I meant - a chance that all 8 rounds will roll "no effect", which has 25% chance to happen, is very low. As in, if you fire it at a single Grenadier squad and your opponent doesn't move them, there's less than 1 in 50000 chance that they just shrug the leaflets off and keep firing on your Conscripts.

Still, I think that completely removing the "no effect" should be taken into consideration, alongside interactions between Fear Propaganda and anti-tank guns.

Actually doctrinal rocket arty makes team games less cancerous. Just imagine stuka zu fuss in doctrine if u still dont get it.

He means cancer because its balanced around its resource cost and CP requirement which are high. Now the problem is in team game you can't really go without it as USF since your stock option are meh and going to be nerfed in the next patch.

Snip

If I'm not mistaken I think the AT gun has to be not set up in order for the retreat to proc. But at any rate it's a pretty silly possibility - if fear propaganda was in a more meta commander it would have probably been patched ages ago.

Regardless I agree that it's a prime target for tweaking in the commander patch. It's radius is also rather small so it's really hard to use on anything that isn't a static clump of units. Something like making it target a sector rather than a fixed circle might help. It also might be cool if it was turned into a positive buff to target your own units with instead - like a localized For Mother Russia. Incendiary Barrage basically does the same job as Fear Prop but better which is why it's not used at all really...

A feel like a look should be taken at:

* partyson doctrine, the partysons them selve dont seem worth it, they trade so bad bcs of their expensive mp cost.

* Con ppsh, they seem not really viable to me, maybe make it one more ppsh model and one less rifle? i believe it was 3 ppsh and 3 rifle models now? def dont want to make them broken. But atm they are clearly overshadowed by 7 man cons or svt cons. or shocks.

* sovjet IL-2 'manual single strafe ability' (from i believe tactical warfare)is like no way as good as its usf counterpart in the calli m19 doc. Shots not landing in the area?

* USF 'manual single strafe ability' from the calli M19 doc is currently bugged in a weird way. like 90% of dps of the strafe ends up in the exact middle of the arrea of effect indicator. which guarantees wipes easily and feels like cheaper pre nerf fragruns.

* The dubble callin ostruppen from mobile defense should be reworked. atm is just useless. replace it by single ostruppen or actually maybe by assgrens since mobility is the theme. could be an easy fix.

* The camo upgrade for grens. mgs and pgrens should maybe be taken a look at,its not really easy to use and get it of. for mg's it works bcs they literaly dont have to move to aim at a target. but if uslightly have to move to shoot a target the bonus doesnt work. like if u have to make a 180 degree rotatoin for example.

* The ost close air support recon sweep could in my opinion be replaced by the smoke recon. since it was kinda bugged and smoke recon works always just fine.

* maybe the munition increase scav yield for okw scav doc should be mergerd with JLI, since they are recommended as special scav squad anyway. I doesnt really seem worth the ablity slot to me for the impact it has. maybe since scavenge is about resources give it the same 'quick decap ability' that breakthrough has. Or give it the manpower redeemed thing from the old fire storm doc? Or maybe give it the 221/3 bcs it increases resources and well, u know scavenge doc.

I will write another post with some more issues, cuz my sister gonna kill me if i dont watch deadpool with her

Anything with Fast Recruiting o Relief Infantry must be reworked, or removed, more space on screen is better than having those skills. The Stuka JU-87 Anti-Tank Strafe from Close Air Support skill must be reworked, the low damage, the time to arrive, the price, and the luck you need for it to be successful is ridiculous, increase the damage and increase the price or increase the speed of the Stuka.

If I'm not mistaken I think the AT gun has to be not set up in order for the retreat to proc. But at any rate it's a pretty silly possibility - if fear propaganda was in a more meta commander it would have probably been patched ages ago.

Regardless I agree that it's a prime target for tweaking in the commander patch. It's radius is also rather small so it's really hard to use on anything that isn't a static clump of units. Something like making it target a sector rather than a fixed circle might help. It also might be cool if it was turned into a positive buff to target your own units with instead - like a localized For Mother Russia. Incendiary Barrage basically does the same job as Fear Prop but better which is why it's not used at all really...

I just double checked - they do not have to be set up in order for them to retreat. It's just that the chance is pretty low at 10% per round. Even if all 8 shells drop on an AT gun, the chances of them triggering a retreat are at about 56%.

I do agree that if this ability was present in more popular commanders, it would likely be fixed in some way. Fear Artillery dropped by Commissar from NKVD Rifle Disruption is identical in the effects it causes, but that commander isn't exactly meta (fun to use though!).

You can get some insperation for new abilities.

I'm also still having vibes for ostheer urban assault commander.

Overwatch doctrine : flares on neutral points so you can queue flares up and cap and move on

Here are my general wishes for the next commander patch:

• Soviets: Reduce the number of air attacks but increase the number of off map artillery. This move alone would reduce the overlay significantly
  
  
• Lowering the munition costs for a number of off-map artillery abilities like Zeroing arty, etc.
  UK: concentrated Fire Barrage / current price: 240 munition
  USF: P-47 rocket run / current price: 240 munition
  USF: 240mm HOwitzer barrage / current price: 250 munition
  OKW: Zeroing Arty / current price: 300 munition
  All this abilities need cost adjustments
  
  
• Wehrmacht: One more commander with Assgrens.
  Currently Wehrmacht has 2 docs with Assgrens and both offer Tigers as well. It would be good if there would be a commander with Assgrens but without a heavy tank.
  Storm commander would be perfect for this:
  Replace Riegel mine (Riegel shooud be moved to Mobile Defense) with Assgrens ans suddenly you have a really cool, thematically strong commander. Off map smoke and Assgrens will have great synergy and Wehrmacht would get howitzer commander with a call in.
  
  
  

Oh, boy. So team games will remain complete cancer then.

It's not cancer, it keeps allies in the game, just like Pwerfer and Stuka can one shot squads/weapons. The trick is to predict the movement of your enemy and you can have a massive impact with any of the mobile artillery unit. What these units excel at is blob control + static emplacements/units. So no, Callie isn't the problem here lethally, it's to do with its survivability.

I just double checked - they do not have to be set up in order for them to retreat. It's just that the chance is pretty low at 10% per round. Even if all 8 shells drop on an AT gun, the chances of them triggering a retreat are at about 56%.

I do agree that if this ability was present in more popular commanders, it would likely be fixed in some way. Fear Artillery dropped by Commissar from NKVD Rifle Disruption is identical in the effects it causes, but that commander isn't exactly meta (fun to use though!).

this (and your previous posts on this) is quite interesting! as far as i'm concerned, the ability to force mgs and even at guns to retreat is the main selling point for propaganda arty. i guess the randomness, especially with team weapons as you mentioned, is what keeps it more or less balanced. a guaranteed AoE retreat of a pair of at guns for some 80 mun would be quite game-breaking obviously. would be interesting to know how exactly you'd brush it up.

No new units, that is sad. Was hoping to see Beute-T34 PzKpfw. 747 (r).


Osttruppen-Commander:
CP0: Osttruppen
CP1: trechnes
CP2: Artillerie-Officer
CP3: supplies
CP5: hull-down
CP12: Gustav

Osttruppen should be able to build sandbags and wire with T1, improves also reserve-troups, makes trench-ability obsolete


Luftwaffeversorgungs-Commander:

Overall: Fire-bomb's stats should be changed with StuKa-zu-Fuß napalm's stats, buffs it, so it gets any effect. xD



Edit: Overall, will we see a change for Commando-Panzer4? For me an useless unit... bonus isn't really worth it anymore. It arrives too late, AI is bad and AT not present. For that it is way to expensive. If not:


Festungspanzer-Commander:
CP2: tank-smoke
CP2: mobile-recoon (SdKfz 251)
CP5: hull-down
CP7: Commando-Panzer
CP8: PaK43
CP12: Gustav

also, to make it more different than other def-commander:

Show Spoiler

It's not cancer, it keeps allies in the game, just like Pwerfer and Stuka can one shot squads/weapons. The trick is to predict the movement of your enemy and you can have a massive impact with any of the mobile artillery unit. What these units excel at is blob control + static emplacements/units. So no, Callie isn't the problem here lethally, it's to do with its survivability.

Calliope is way better than any other rocket artillery and just slightly making its survivability worse is not going to be enough. It's basically impossible to use anything but vehicles once USF got its obligatory 1-2 Calliopes out because there is just not enough time to retreat after hearing the sound of the rockets. Even instantly retreating is often not saving multiple units from getting wiped.

This really reminds me of the discussion about the Jackson. The balance team basically thinks the Jackson needs to be the by far best TD because USF can't deal with tanks otherwise. Conveniently ignoring that the M1 ATG is the best ATG as well as easy access to handheld AT as well as doctrinal medium tanks that beat P4s. Then you have ridiculous things like triple elite zook Rangers with smoke and sprint.

USF also has Scotts, Priest, Mortar HT, regular mortars and Pak Howitzers + plenty of off-map abilities even non-doctrinally. Why does the faction also need the by far best rocket artillery unit?

Meanwhile, UKF has WAY less indirect fire and the only rocket artillery they have is the LM which is stuck in a mediocre doctrine. LM is pretty bad but still gets the job done as an area denial weapon which is also what the Calliope should be like just with more mobility. So reduce cost and lethality and make the Calliope something that you can use to break up team weapon walls just like the cheap but harder-to-use LM.

I get that USF needs some sort of rocket artillery for late-game team games BUT it doesn't need to be that incredibly powerful. It should be more area-denial than just wiping all infantry and team weapons by driving a Calliope towards the middle of the map and clicking the barrage button. On top of the flexible pop cap and also having 300+ penetrations Jacksons this is just retarded.