I dont know what the rest of you all think but with the execption for the German (both factions) LEFH 18 in 1 vs 1
I dont see players go with the howitzer doctrines at all we all know why the only other static howitzer which is the ML 20 is nerfed to the ground but that isnt to point.
Point of this thread the express my idea on how to make the static howitzers more viable in larger team games rather than just buliding them at the edge of your base and then bomb your opoonents base in 1 VS 1 with impunity
the problem with the static howitzers that if you put them into a viable close positions they become open targets but if you place them in the back they wont be able to contribute much to the large battle. and most of the time emplacement is mostlikely destroyed before it could reach vet 3 which has the range increase
so i propose 2 changes that goes for static guns and 1 for SPG's
1- reduce the range increase bonus but move it to vet 1 (only for static)
2- Add Smoke barrage abality (also to SPG) that way Big guns will be more usable
How to Make Howtizers (not SPG) more Viable in Team games ?
3 Feb 2021, 08:24 AM
#1
Posts: 43
3 Feb 2021, 10:07 AM
#2
Posts: 2779
LeFH 18 is horribly annoying and effective in teamgame.
It doesn't appear in 1v1 like almost every US game in COH1, because...
It sucks, Panzerwerfer and other rocket artilleries being too damn good.
It doesn't appear in 1v1 like almost every US game in COH1, because...
It sucks, Panzerwerfer and other rocket artilleries being too damn good.
3 Feb 2021, 10:13 AM
#3
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
I don't think LeFHs get used in 1v1 at all.
And in team games they are - map dependent - very effective. Laney maps with lots of 'blocked' space like Angermunde get absolute spam fests.
And in team games they are - map dependent - very effective. Laney maps with lots of 'blocked' space like Angermunde get absolute spam fests.
3 Feb 2021, 10:57 AM
#4
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
What if all static artillery got access to a smoke barrage for X muni cost which is independent of the HE barrage ?
Note that Howitzers are more viable in teamgames than in 1v1. I would say the sweet spot is between 2v2 and 3v3, cause the more players you have, the higher the chances of recon + offmap to nuke it off.
Note that Howitzers are more viable in teamgames than in 1v1. I would say the sweet spot is between 2v2 and 3v3, cause the more players you have, the higher the chances of recon + offmap to nuke it off.
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3 Feb 2021, 10:59 AM
#5
Posts: 43
I don't think LeFHs get used in 1v1 at all.you would be suprised how many times the OKW player simply wins the game agaisnt me by getting lucky at 1 vs 1 with his howitzer even if he is at a territorial disadvantage
And in team games they are - map dependent - very effective. Laney maps with lots of 'blocked' space like Angermunde get absolute spam fests.
like this is not a L2P issue at all even if kick his ass on almost all engagements he just gets lucky with the LEFH 18 and just one shots my ambulance and then i have to re buy it which then leads into a snow balling effect
3 Feb 2021, 11:15 AM
#6
Posts: 240
you would be suprised how many times the OKW player simply wins the game agaisnt me by getting lucky at 1 vs 1 with his howitzer even if he is at a territorial disadvantage
like this is not a L2P issue at all even if kick his ass on almost all engagements he just gets lucky with the LEFH 18 and just one shots my ambulance and then i have to re buy it which then leads into a snow balling effect
If you lose by the time a LeFh destroys your ambu, and this being the tipping point, then it does sound like a L2P issue. Definitely if you are "ahead". An LeFh are 400mp and 50fuel (?) thats a big investment.
A replay would be interesting.
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3 Feb 2021, 11:20 AM
#7
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
you would be suprised how many times the OKW player simply wins the game agaisnt me by getting lucky at 1 vs 1 with his howitzer even if he is at a territorial disadvantage
like this is not a L2P issue at all even if kick his ass on almost all engagements he just gets lucky with the LEFH 18 and just one shots my ambulance and then i have to re buy it which then leads into a snow balling effect
While I don't play an awful lot of 1v1s, judging by my games and what I see online those static howitzers are not a good choice.
A replay would be good, otherwise I can just assume that you probably do not apply enough pressure to either prevent the building in the first place or otherwise destroy it once it is up.
3 Feb 2021, 11:39 AM
#8
Posts: 43
Well sometimes people are just too stubborn in 1 vs 1
If you lose by the time a LeFh destroys your ambu, and this being the tipping point, then it does sound like a L2P issue. Definitely if you are "ahead". An LeFh are 400mp and 50fuel (?) thats a big investment.
A replay would be interesting.
3 Feb 2021, 11:59 AM
#9
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
If you lose by the time a LeFh destroys your ambu, and this being the tipping point, then it does sound like a L2P issue. Definitely if you are "ahead". An LeFh are 400mp and 50fuel (?) thats a big investment.
A replay would be interesting.
Stock USF M5HT cost 310/50, for 90 manpower more you've got the ability to randomly rape your opponent troops and base from behind your T3. Not to mention that on certain maps You can place quite safely behind you T3 to cover your fuel letting you harrassing his side of the map.
Anyway Howitzer for OKW was a stupid idea since it was first mentioned.
3 Feb 2021, 12:49 PM
#10
Posts: 240
Stock USF M5HT cost 310/50, for 90 manpower more you've got the ability to randomly rape your opponent troops and base from behind your T3. Not to mention that on certain maps You can place quite safely behind you T3 to cover your fuel letting you harrassing his side of the map.
Anyway Howitzer for OKW was a stupid idea since it was first mentioned.
This is comparing apples to oranges. Also OP stated this happens even when he is ahead, thus this investment of Axis is much more severe, and I believe OP just has a problem what to do against Howitzers.
Not only is it hard in such a situation for Axis to get fuel back but also getting the Mp back. A howitzer takes 13 popcap.
The Ruleset is only a guideline, and are not actually the Rules. This is .org
3 Feb 2021, 14:36 PM
#11
Posts: 270 | Subs: 1
A good start would be removing off maps from certain commanders.
What would be the logical thing to do when the opponent has a big fat tank you can't approach head on, like the Elefant or ISU?
Use artillery to kill supporting units and damage the tank since they have huge hitboxes.
You can't do this currently because you just get Stuka'd or IL-2'd.
Adding a smoke barrage is a good idea, Pyrotechnic Sections got a smoke barrage so it seems logical for other on maps.
Adding a vet ability to the ML-20 would be nice too.
What would be the logical thing to do when the opponent has a big fat tank you can't approach head on, like the Elefant or ISU?
Use artillery to kill supporting units and damage the tank since they have huge hitboxes.
You can't do this currently because you just get Stuka'd or IL-2'd.
Adding a smoke barrage is a good idea, Pyrotechnic Sections got a smoke barrage so it seems logical for other on maps.
Adding a vet ability to the ML-20 would be nice too.
3 Feb 2021, 15:00 PM
#12
Posts: 5279
A good start would be removing off maps from certain commanders.
What would be the logical thing to do when the opponent has a big fat tank you can't approach head on, like the Elefant or ISU?
Use artillery to kill supporting units and damage the tank since they have huge hitboxes.
You can't do this currently because you just get Stuka'd or IL-2'd.
Adding a smoke barrage is a good idea, Pyrotechnic Sections got a smoke barrage so it seems logical for other on maps.
Adding a vet ability to the ML-20 would be nice too.
As much as I hate to admit it, the ml-20 haveing flares would be better than the +1 shell...
I'd sooner it get maybe a bonus vs armour or something though so even commanders without an off map can still help with hard AT if the enemy has an elefant or JT that makes the su85 unusable against them.
#stalinwept
3 Feb 2021, 22:22 PM
#13
Posts: 486
Also, artillery counters need to be weakened to allow non-leFH artillery to function.
Counter Barrage has to go and replacing it with Smoke would work great.
Give the ML/20 Smoke at Vet 1 as well as the shell, and both howitzers would be functional.
Counter Barrage has to go and replacing it with Smoke would work great.
Give the ML/20 Smoke at Vet 1 as well as the shell, and both howitzers would be functional.
6 Feb 2021, 02:48 AM
#14
Posts: 4928
Put the ML-20's damage back to 250 and just make it to -50 damage to OKW Trucks and Emplacements. It was always the underdog between the two guns due to inaccuracy and shorter barrage, and then it got hard nerfed to prevent it from being too useful vs OKW, but now it just kinda sucks against everything.
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6 Feb 2021, 03:22 AM
#15
Posts: 469
There is 1 lefh commander with plane and bomb
Soviet also has 1 ml20 commander with plane and bomb drop
I think you call that Balanced
Also to people complaining about counter barraging, it counter barrages every arty piece on the map, even su-76 barrage, so mostly its a wasted cooldown on barrage.
Soviet also has 1 ml20 commander with plane and bomb drop
I think you call that Balanced
Also to people complaining about counter barraging, it counter barrages every arty piece on the map, even su-76 barrage, so mostly its a wasted cooldown on barrage.
6 Feb 2021, 05:00 AM
#16
Posts: 875 | Subs: 6
Howitzers are super weird to balance in team games because they are trivial to destroy with offmap artilleries, if you have a commander that has then. But then can be very different to counter otherwise. Rocket Artillery, while generally also being better are also generally easier to keep alive because they can't be one-clicked by bombing runs.
6 Feb 2021, 08:20 AM
#17
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Give ML20 and Lefh a X seconds discharge smoke as vet1 ability and remove their current one.
- Discharge smoke last 10 seconds
- Discharge smoke instantly stop the barrage if used and set a XX minutes cooldown on it.
The idea is to give Howitzer a soft counter to recon/offmap combo but should requires a bit of anticipation thus adding some seconds between activating the smoke and its use.
Then lasting only 10 seconds force the player to have AA around to take down the recon plane.
Last using it works like a draw, you saved your howitzer but its barrage cooldown is reset for a longer period of time (to be determined).
- Discharge smoke last 10 seconds
- Discharge smoke instantly stop the barrage if used and set a XX minutes cooldown on it.
The idea is to give Howitzer a soft counter to recon/offmap combo but should requires a bit of anticipation thus adding some seconds between activating the smoke and its use.
Then lasting only 10 seconds force the player to have AA around to take down the recon plane.
Last using it works like a draw, you saved your howitzer but its barrage cooldown is reset for a longer period of time (to be determined).
6 Feb 2021, 11:56 AM
#18
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Give ML20 and Lefh a X seconds discharge smoke as vet1 ability and remove their current one.
- Discharge smoke last 10 seconds
- Discharge smoke instantly stop the barrage if used and set a XX minutes cooldown on it.
The idea is to give Howitzer a soft counter to recon/offmap combo but should requires a bit of anticipation thus adding some seconds between activating the smoke and its use.
Then lasting only 10 seconds force the player to have AA around to take down the recon plane.
Last using it works like a draw, you saved your howitzer but its barrage cooldown is reset for a longer period of time (to be determined).
How is smoke going to protect a howizter from off map?
10 Feb 2021, 18:19 PM
#19
Posts: 43
well offmaps do require LOS to target even for a second
How is smoke going to protect a howizter from off map?
10 Feb 2021, 18:40 PM
#20
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
A good start would be removing off maps from certain commanders.
What would be the logical thing to do when the opponent has a big fat tank you can't approach head on, like the Elefant or ISU?
Use artillery to kill supporting units and damage the tank since they have huge hitboxes.
You can't do this currently because you just get Stuka'd or IL-2'd.
Adding a smoke barrage is a good idea, Pyrotechnic Sections got a smoke barrage so it seems logical for other on maps.
Adding a vet ability to the ML-20 would be nice too.
Agree. Remove IL2 from ISU doctrines and Stuka from Jäger Armour.
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