Smartie's commander reworks: Soviets

Hi guys,
in anticipation of a new patch focusing on commander improvements (https://www.coh2.org/file/19295/pogchamp.png) I worked on some proposals for Soviets, OKW and USF.

1. General faction thoughts:
The Soviets had the most powerful artillery in the war but in CoH2 they barely have good artillery off-map abilities. Only 5! of 22 soviet commanders have an off map artillery ability: 3 have incendiary barrage, 2 AT overwatch.
Compare that to the number of 11 airstrikes and you see a huge discrepancy. Therefore I would love to see some new off map artillery abilities in some of the 2nd or 3rd tier commanders to make them more distinctive. New arty abilities could replace some of the airstrikes or the ML20.

Off map Arty ability ideas:
• ZIS Barrage: no explanation needed
• Rocket Barrage: Works like the OKW version but with Kathy rockets instead of Stuka rockets
• Breakthrough Arty: Mix of ML-20 and smoke shells
• Heavy bombardment: 3 B4 shells, Soviet equivalent to Railway artillery

All ideas are of course more or less copies of axis abilities. If you have more creative ideas, please post them I will incorporate them in the OP.

2. Commander rework ideas:
Tank Hunter tactics
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Soviet Reserve Army
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Advance Warfare
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It comes without saying that my ideas are not exhaustive. Many roads lead to Rome and there are several other underperforming and simply bad designed soviet commanders.

Please provide constructive feedback and make your own proposals here. We all have the same goal:
Make the Coh2 commander pool as good as possible.

Conscript repair was never bad ability. It is quite usefull as it allows to lesser dauntingrepairtimes of combat engis.

Overall I think the suggestions are definitely not bad. If they are the right way to go is hard to determine. I will think more about those in the coming days.

I'll just quickly touch the subject of Partisans and would like them to have a major rework as well. Partisans are in quite some commanders and they would all benefit from usable Partisans.

I've made an exhaustive list of ideas in other threads already, so I'll just leave it at that that I would like to see them as a high utility, but bad fighting squad that you would typically build 1 of to sabotage the enemy.

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Tank hunter simply does not need artillery as commander ability replace the ml-20 with mark target and is fine, fix the the AT bombing and it will better.

Unless one want to redesign the B4 and make it an AT artillery.

I forgot to mention Jibber's rework ideas:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/106030/sander-s-personal-balance-changes/post/837953

Tank hunter simply does not need artillery as commander ability replace the ml-20 with mark target and is fine, fix the the AT bombing and it will better.

Unless one want to redesign the B4 and make it an AT artillery.

People who forget the past are deemed to repeat it.

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People who forget the past are deemed to repeat it.

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I was big in arguing against the b4 in that commander, but I'm not sure if it got a change but I think it would fit now, granted there won't ever be a tank dive on it, it'll be recon and stuka bombed so I guess the point is moot.

I was big in arguing against the b4 in that commander, but I'm not sure if it got a change but I think it would fit now, granted there won't ever be a tank dive on it, it'll be recon and stuka bombed so I guess the point is moot.

Well, it doesn't really matter much which arty is there, the point is to have something to flush out opponent to come to you that isn't muni based.
B4 was there originally anyway after 1st rework.

I was big in arguing against the b4 in that commander, but I'm not sure if it got a change but I think it would fit now, granted there won't ever be a tank dive on it, it'll be recon and stuka bombed so I guess the point is moot.

Exactly very few people would drive a tank in order kill a an artillery piece so the idea is flawed in its concept.

In addition a howizter that have great AI have little place in commander themed as AT. Currently the commander is that good in AT (there better commander for that job) while it surprisingly good in killing OKW truck with combination of artillery barrage and bombing. So I would say the commander has missed it AT orientation.

Make the B-4 Direct shot a toggle ability to turn it into a big AT gun like the Pak43
Then it would fit in

Well, it doesn't really matter much which arty is there, the point is to have something to flush out opponent to come to you that isn't muni based.
B4 was there originally anyway after 1st rework.

Aye, the wombo combo that is recon and bomb would need changed from the meta commanders for something like that to work, but the b4 is certainly more AT than the ml20.

Exactly very few people would drive a tank in order kill a an artillery piece so the idea is flawed in its concept.

In addition a howizter that have great AI have little place in commander themed as AT. Currently the commander is that good in AT (there better commander for that job) while it surprisingly good in killing OKW truck with combination of artillery barrage and bombing. So I would say the commander has missed it AT orientation.

All howitzers have AI and AT. The b4 at least with its hit and miss attitude generally means you will focus on high impact targets like tanks. But yea diving a tank for arty isn't a thing so much.

I feel like the synergy of Mark Target in Tank Hunters would need to be tested. The PTAB Run and AT Grenade assault already do good damage to vehicles and stacking that with Mark Target might be excessive (granted that this would require a lot of munitions float but worth thinking about).

Overall I think you have solid suggestions though!

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All howitzers have AI and AT. The b4 at least with its hit and miss attitude generally means you will focus on high impact targets like tanks. But yea diving a tank for arty isn't a thing so much.

And that is my point. Unless B-4 is turned into an AT gun the commander should not have howitzer as an ability.

And that is my point. Unless B-4 is turned into an AT gun the commander should not have howitzer as an ability.

And how are you supposed to get opponent to you when he has build Zigfried line on VPs?
Its ambush commander, it does not work in attack at all.

Also, you aware of B4 ability?

I feel like the synergy of Mark Target in Tank Hunters would need to be tested. The PTAB Run and AT Grenade assault already do good damage to vehicles and stacking that with Mark Target might be excessive (granted that this would require a lot of munitions float but worth thinking about).

Overall I think you have solid suggestions though!

Thx for the kind words, that's music to my ears

@all:
I would like to bring the attention to the huge discrepancy of Soviet air attacks and off-map arty abilities.Only 5! of 22 soviet commanders have an off map artillery ability: 3 have incendiary barrage, 2 AT overwatch but there are 11 airstrikes !

If we want to reduce the huge overlays of the Soviet commanders I would consider it a priority to reduce the number of airstrikes but to increase the number of off map arty.
Right now the ML-20 is supposed to compensate the lack of off map arty but the unit is not really attractive imo: Allies have much better long distance arty in Calliope / Priest / Sexton that can't be countered by a divebomb.
Replacing some of the ML-20s with off-map arty would make the doctrines more distinctive AND more attractive because players don't need to invest so much MP in the arty.

So if you have good ideas for off-map arty abilities please post them here!



Some of the ML-20 commanders coul

I will suggest also to nerf the HM-38 120mm Mortar Squad.

I will suggest also to nerf the HM-38 120mm Mortar Squad.

Why? It isent used all that much. Its horrible ineffecient, esp cost and pop wise. It doesnt do amazing damage nor very accurate.

Why? It isent used all that much. Its horrible ineffecient, esp cost and pop wise. It doesnt do amazing damage nor very accurate.

Its damage is more than amazing actually, it is just a braindead unit that can counter all indirect fire and support weapons so easily , and it can wipe any unit in just a few shots if not one shot only, it is similar to the American howitzer but with a retreat button.

Its damage is more than amazing actually, it is just a braindead unit that can counter all indirect fire and support weapons so easily , and it can wipe any unit in just a few shots if not one shot only, it is similar to the American howitzer but with a retreat button.

I disagree.
If its a braindead unit you would see it every game, wich doesnt happen. I am not sure on the numbers but its damage is not amazing among mortars, its sounds on impact however, making it seem awsome. If it does one shot at all it massive rng roll. And that for a pop and ecpensive mortar.

There are plenty units abilities that can one shot far more easely then the 120mm can.

I disagree.
If its a braindead unit you would see it every game, wich doesnt happen. I am not sure on the numbers but its damage is not amazing among mortars, its sounds on impact however, making it seem awsome. If it does one shot at all it massive rng roll. And that for a pop and ecpensive mortar.

There are plenty units abilities that can one shot far more easely then the 120mm can.

Check this

https://www.coh2.org/topic/106172/indirect-fire-performance-a-comparison

Hm38 is superior to most weapons of its type.