[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback
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23 Dec 2020, 09:29 AM
#481
Posts: 1273
There's nothing wrong with UKF getting buffs. Everyone tells each other to stop theory crafting but everyone is theory crafting.. Let's see the changes in action. I still think that UKF has been neutered heavily with the IS and 5 fuel ULV nerfs..
23 Dec 2020, 09:32 AM
#482
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
"And they still are very bad in actual combat despite all of that because"
Pls test you claim and provide evidence to support it. I have little to add until you do.
(Also work of reading comprehension because as I already posted this claim is simply false )
And you have failed at reading comprehension too!
Their scaling, except that vet3 rec accuracy is exclusively paid through upgrades. They do not scale otherwise.
Heavy sappers is an upgrade.
So are remaining 2 LMGs.
So yeah, in a very challenged way, but you still repeated what I have said and agreed with me.
Also, your claim that they are OP is based EXCLUSIVELY on theorycrafting and fearmongering.
You have not produced a singular replay ever to prove your claim of OP unit.
Maybe you should stop telling people to do no micro tests on a flat map and actually try to use the unit yourself and post a replay of how op it performs?
After all, burden of proof lies on the one who makes a claim and it is you who claimed they are op out of nowhere.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Dec 2020, 09:37 AM
#483
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
And you have failed at reading comprehension too!
Also, your claim that they are OP is based EXCLUSIVELY on theorycrafting and fearmongering.
You have not produced a singular replay ever to prove your claim of OP unit.
Maybe you should stop telling people to do no micro tests on a flat map and actually try to use the unit yourself and post a replay of how op it performs?
Your claim that Heavy sapper are "VERY BAD" in actual combat is simply false. Provide proof to support your claim or stop BS.
23 Dec 2020, 09:38 AM
#484
Posts: 1273
Vipper, you're the one insisting and claiming that the unit will be OP so you should show us that it's OP. Yet, all you showed is theory crafting that an end game unit has a chance to be useful at its actual job. So far, it reads that UKF is generally getting the short end of the stick, as shown by experienced UKF players. I'm maining OST and I can already suggest that UKF will be overrun early by my ULV, their loss of map control, and their loss of abilities.
23 Dec 2020, 10:23 AM
#485
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
at range 35, sapper can deal 21.304 dps with 2 bren guns and a vicker k, or 23.004 dps with 3 vicker K setup.
That is roughly close to a vet3 mg 42 grenadier - 23.698 - which often come before that timing, while require 2.5 to 3 time of munition cost and a latest tech that lock out an other actual meta unit. i said before that this isnt a good design, but what exactly is OP about it, consider all the cost and drawback ?
If heavy sapper 3 lmg's commbat capable can be call "strong" to the point of Op then i guess all the wining about lmg42 grenadier can shut the **** up by now.
That is roughly close to a vet3 mg 42 grenadier - 23.698 - which often come before that timing, while require 2.5 to 3 time of munition cost and a latest tech that lock out an other actual meta unit. i said before that this isnt a good design, but what exactly is OP about it, consider all the cost and drawback ?
If heavy sapper 3 lmg's commbat capable can be call "strong" to the point of Op then i guess all the wining about lmg42 grenadier can shut the **** up by now.
23 Dec 2020, 10:33 AM
#486
Posts: 1515
General V is at it again. Sappers are fine, even with all the upgrades. If you put a vicker K and double bren, it's a fuc*ton of munitions on an easily killed unit. End of story. They are not useless but are light years from OP.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
23 Dec 2020, 10:53 AM
#487
Posts: 1794
sturms start getting slapped around as the game goes on as well. i have not tested yet, but i can see sappers being made minutes sooner may be problematic is all im saying. like i said, they are basically ost pios, but can get an extra man, have better vet, get weapon racks, get a snare.... early game victories can snowball and units that scale well are prone to being abused.
not saying its definitely going to happen, but its something we should keep a keen eye on.
Imo RE + UC and Aec push will be too strong early game.
23 Dec 2020, 10:57 AM
#488
Posts: 155
Imo RE + UC and Aec push will be too strong early game.
Why ? All three got nerfed.
23 Dec 2020, 11:07 AM
#489
Posts: 143
Sappers have a lot of potential with their low cost. But it has to be tested. It´s too soon to argue. I am all in for testing. But i am very bad with UKF 
hmu in chatbox
hmu in chatbox
23 Dec 2020, 11:11 AM
#490
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
at range 35, sapper can deal 21.304 dps with 2 bren guns and a vicker k, or 23.004 dps with 3 vicker K setup.
That is roughly close to a vet3 mg 42 grenadier - 23.698 - which often come before that timing, while require 2.5 to 3 time of munition cost and a latest tech that lock out an other actual meta unit. i said before that this isnt a good design, but what exactly is OP about it, consider all the cost and drawback ?
Comparing DPS without durability means very little.
I suggest you test them (as I have) vs other units and see how well the perform.
There are no drawbacks to the Heavy sapper upgrade.
Glad to see that you agree with me that they the upgrade is badly designed and should be looked before certain user started to derail the thread with his pointless posts.
If heavy sapper 3 lmg's commbat capable can be call "strong" to the point of Op then i guess all the wining about lmg42 grenadier can shut the **** up by now.
Even the fact that you are comparing a durable engineer unit with a "glass cannon" main line infatry is indication that they punch above the role.
Sappers have a lot of potential with their low cost. But it has to be tested. It´s too soon to argue. I am all in for testing. But i am very bad with UKF
You can run tested in cheat mode.
23 Dec 2020, 11:14 AM
#491
Posts: 155
Trenches build as fast or faster than sandbags when sections are 5man.
No, trenches always build faster than bags in the preview.
23 Dec 2020, 11:44 AM
#492
Posts: 143
You can run tested in cheat mode.
yes, but i like to compare units in a match. even though i alone give a small sample size.
Its the reason why i mostly post in okw topics. its the only faction i feel i understand not only well but am experienced with it despite my player profile.
alot of people in this forum should behave the same. thats how feedback should work i think. Just like in V1 patch when people were going crazy about panthers accuracy buff. That disscussion was a useless mess.
23 Dec 2020, 11:53 AM
#493
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Comparing DPS without durability means very little.
Just like underlining EHP vs small arms, while pretending its not 15th-20th minute of the game where they realistically appear and tanks, grenades, mines and indirect fire are all over the place, gibbing half a squad in one shot constantly.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Dec 2020, 11:57 AM
#494
Posts: 1273
I suggest you test them (as I have) vs other units and see how well the perform.
Do you mind providing these replays? It'd be great seeing them being OP in action. Thanks.
At this point, you have no evidence, you refuse to provide some, and you are just pure theorycrafting as many others have pointed out.
23 Dec 2020, 12:07 PM
#495
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Just like underlining EHP vs small arms, while pretending its not 15th-20th minute of the game where they realistically appear and tanks, grenades, mines and indirect fire are all over the place, gibbing half a squad in one shot constantly.
Any evidence that Heavy Sapper "are very bad in actual combat" or are going to continue theory crafting.
23 Dec 2020, 12:23 PM
#496
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Any evidence that Heavy Sapper "are very bad in actual combat" or are going to continue theory crafting.
You made your claim first.
So we're waiting on your evidence.
Launch patch mod game, use them in the way you claimed first is too strong and show us how strong they are for we are all blind and deaf to the ascended ones preaching the truth.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Dec 2020, 12:24 PM
#497
Posts: 42
Any evidence that Heavy Sapper "are very bad in actual combat" or are going to continue theory crafting.
I tested heavy sappers a few games (not competitive) and didin't found them OP at all. Also tested them with flame throwers so i can have them on the field earlier and actually do smth until upgrade is available. Actually, i am not sure they are even worth it. I mean, for that kind of muni investment, commandos with grenades and lmg can have a much bigger impact and chance to wipe.
I would like to see some good players try to play them, but haven't seen any1 until now.
23 Dec 2020, 13:23 PM
#498
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Comparing DPS without durability means very little.
and all you have said about them uptill then was EHP
I suggest you test them (as I have) vs other units and see how well the perform.
i suggest you actually use them in live game to get a grip of what they are now, then may be provide some replay of your "tests"? a couple of k dmg again AI or some win on empty test map mean very little.
There are no drawbacks to the Heavy sapper upgrade.
a ton of munition for a mediocer performance and locking out the comet isnt "drawbacks", sure, im done with this.
Even the fact that you are comparing a durable engineer unit with a "glass cannon" main line infatry is indication that they punch above the role.
there are nothing wrong with the fact that an unit can punch above there weight with that kind of invesment, i pay triple the amount of munition to get similar lever of performance.
23 Dec 2020, 13:25 PM
#499
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I tested heavy sappers a few games (not competitive) and didin't found them OP at all. Also tested them with flame throwers so i can have them on the field earlier and actually do smth until upgrade is available. Actually, i am not sure they are even worth it. I mean, for that kind of muni investment, commandos with grenades and lmg can have a much bigger impact and chance to wipe.
I would like to see some good players try to play them, but haven't seen any1 until now.
You mean in live or a preview game?
Comparing to commandos an elite doctrinal unit makes little sense, compare them with other engineer types units and you might be surprised.
23 Dec 2020, 13:27 PM
#500
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
You mean in live or a preview game?
Comparing to commandos an elite doctrinal unit makes little sense, compare them with other engineer types units and you might be surprised.
It might be a massive shock to you, but pioneers or CEs do not have access to late game upgrades, nor you can dump 150+ muni on them to make them better.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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