[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

Not sure here, but what about churchills ridiculous rear armor:

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I mean, if I'm looking at right stats, its a bit too much even for a "tanking" tank.

Not sure here, but what about churchills ridiculous rear armor:

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I mean, if I'm looking at right stats, its a bit too much even for a "tanking" tank.

It was already explained multiple times, including people in balance team, its slow damage sponge, its supposed to take lots of punishment from all sides.

It was already explained multiple times, including people in balance team, its slow damage sponge, its supposed to take lots of punishment from all sides.

Damage sponge is not taking damage if its not penetrated. Aswell as, its kinda strange to expect it to tank damage up the ass, considering you are not supposed to let enemies get to that to begin with.

It should be either armor or HP, not both, especially not rear armor one.

KV-1 as it is can give medium problems, even when flanked and having inferior main gun to churchill. Churchill not only has main gun of a premium medium, but also completly immune to medium flanking.

I'm not going to argue functionality of unit with someone who doesn't understand that functionality based on own, imaginary definitions of the role.

Especially if that someone thinks cromwel is a premium medium.

I'm really excited to see these changes. Feels like some awesome quality of life changes. Mortar pit starting with a single mortar is awesome and ending up as an end-game light static arty is also awesome. Really helps deal with the fact that they don't have any reliable long range options late-game especially no good rocket arty options in team games. This helps deal with that immensely.

Thank you!

Side note: I can't help to think that Centaurs will become a dominate early game rush unit as its already powerful and is receiving another buff.

Valentine change has been a long time coming. Really glad its getting nerfed so people may choose other commanders.

I'm not going to argue functionality of unit with someone who doesn't understand that functionality based on own, imaginary definitions of the role.

Are you try to discribe yourself? Ones again, try give one reason why it should be protected from flanking, which is the core game mechanic? I mean you can somewhat fight or finish comet with PIV attacking from the rear, why churchill shouldnt give a single fuck about flanking, if its not Panther?

Especially if that someone thinks cromwel is a premium medium.

Ye my bad here, checked wrong gun stat. But we can also remember all your fuck ups regarding stats I just should check them more carefully.

The heavy mortar barrage seems underwhelming. The range is barely better that the normal barrage, and the CD then shuts down all barrages for two minutes. The damage it does isn't anything special either since only 1 of the mortars appears to be firing heavy shells.

I'm not sure what the intended use is? I think the range needs to go way up to be worth the long CD applied to both barrages after use.

The heavy mortar barrage ability is bugged atm. It has only 120 range instead of 180 and it fires only 6 shells instead of 8. Should be a lot better after these get fixed (next iteration).

The heavy mortar barrage ability is bugged atm. It has only 120 range instead of 180 and it fires only 6 shells instead of 8. Should be a lot better after these get fixed (next iteration).

That makes a lot more sense, thanks.

Damage sponge is not taking damage if its not penetrated. Aswell as, its kinda strange to expect it to tank damage up the ass, considering you are not supposed to let enemies get to that to begin with.

It should be either armor or HP, not both, especially not rear armor one.

KV-1 as it is can give medium problems, even when flanked and having inferior main gun to churchill. Churchill not only has main gun of a premium medium, but also completly immune to medium flanking.

Considering that it comes on field when you already have Panthers and/or Stugs or JP4s, Churchill is a free vet grinder for those tanks. If you have a problem dealing with them.... not balance fault. Panther has armor, hp, AT gun and plenty of MGs next to the pintle, and you're complaining that a semi-stock (depends which spec. you get) damage sponge is too much?

Considering that it comes on field when you already have Panthers and/or Stugs or JP4s, Churchill is a free vet grinder for those tanks. If you have a problem dealing with them.... not balance fault. Panther has armor, hp, AT gun and plenty of MGs next to the pintle, and you're complaining that a semi-stock (depends which spec. you get) damage sponge is too much?

Stug\JP4 can engage it frontally, aswell as pak walls. I wasnt complaining about frontal armor.

Also Panthers wont be the field if ost\okw get P4. If ost completely skips T3 and goes strate for T4 and OKW completly skip all other fuel based units, then yes, panther wont be too far after first churchill.

Other then that, it wont.

I'm complaining, that its ass has 180 armor, with P4 close range penetration being around ~120. Its rear armor, might aswell match frontal armor, because other Panther\Stug\JP4 nothing will penetrate it.

Churchill has the same rear armor a Ostheer front armor and allot more HP.

And it is not simply a damage sponge it gun is comparable with Cromwell and it just got a reload buff.

Also speaking about "slow damage sponge". It has max speed of 3.9 (avre), 3.8 (crock), 4 (default). KV-1 in comperacent has max speed of 5.1. All heavy tanks (except super heavies) have around 4.8-5.1

BUT. While max speed is lower then for other heavy tanks, its acceleration and decceleration are the hightest along all heavy tanks in the game.

In other words, Churchill is the fastest heavy tank to reach its max speed. Its accel\deccel are 3.5.
In competent.
KV-1 - 1.6
Tiger - 1.8
KingTiger - 1.4
KV-8 - 1.4
Panther - accel 2.4 (max speed 6.6), deccel 4.5.
Jaghttiger - accel 1.2, deccel 1.25 max speed 3.

So no, Churchill isnt slow by any means, its max speed is just lower, but at the same time fastest to reach.

...

So no, Churchill isnt slow by any means, its max speed is just lower, but at the same time fastest to reach.

And high rotation making easier to turn frontal armor.

With the proposed buff in the note, namely reload and tank commander, let just standardized rear armor of churchill to 110 if it make pp happy. I personally will prefer sifting those rear armor to the front, like 280/110, keep the tank commander, standardized reload to 6.25/6.5 (6.125 in the patch).

For the comet, pp complaint it have better AI and too much utilities. My proposal will be cost remain 175 and remove both the grenade and wp. The comet will still have enough utilities with smoke and war speed, vet 1 can change to reduce smoke cd like on cromwell or an increase smoke range, and, if possible, war speed change to muni cost per use, get rid of the ro.e activation. Wp then can be move to cromwell in form of an about 60 muni upgrade "issue wp round" exclusive to hammer. It wilk help the cromwell scale up late game and overall making hammer more attractive with benefits to the fast cruiser tank. The CD and range of the wp if moved to cromwell can be adjust, i think a longer cd and the requirement of a upgrade is enough to not make it oppress. Talking on the realistic respective, the wp on cromwell make a lot more sense as it is the M64 shell available for 75mm gun, the 77mm gun on comet dont have such a shell.

Still, will sections received some serious work, like a price increase back to 280 and a simple bolster work ?

Replace starting Tommies with Engineers.


+1 Excellent idea

Replace starting Tommies with Engineers.


+1 Excellent idea

im on it, too, but it have to be done with adjustment to UC, or the syn will be vrey strong for a UC built opening.

After playing a number of competitive matches with the mod, here are my observations.

Infantry Section: The decision to take away the capturing bonus + slower sandbag build speed has significant impact on the early game. It is very difficult to get into good defensive positions without sacrificing map control, and making a mistake can be highly punishing. It is also very difficult to protect cut off against offensive opponent who exploits this change with early blobbing. Like what other people have said before, this patch will essentially lock UKF players to go with 4 infantry section build.

I have tried to vary up the early build order such as UC as the 3rd or 4th unit, and MG as 2nd or 3rd unit, but neither are as effective as the 4 IS build. Not sure how to fix this to be honest, and maybe this is what we have to get used to.

As a side note, the suggestion to replace the starting unit with a sapper is probably going to really hurt the faction. I don't think it's a great idea unless either sappers are buffed, or IS build speed is increased.

AEC change: not really a big deal as long as the puma sees the same sight nerf. I do think maybe consider slight buff to it's anti-infantry abilities as the change to the early game can make it really difficult to recover from a mistake, or push out of mass opposing infantry composition.
The increased build time is somewhat manageable, but too harsh imo in light of the early game nerf.

Churchill change: The pop cap change was badly necessary, and I would even suggest to further boost it's anti-infantry ability a tad bit. But if only the pop cap is kept that's good enough. The end game army composition that I am seeing now is in a really good place imo.

Mortar pit: Good change to encourage the use of it, but I am not sure how any brit player can afford to build one until late game, where it will have little impact, given the early game nerf.

All other changes are manageable, and imo aren't really that significant, so I have just focused on what I think is contentious and potentially problematic.

Churchill Infantry Tank
The Churchill is seeing the reversion of its population increase due to the British generally having higher than usual population. Furthermore, improvements to its main gun and the addition of a tank commander should make this tank - and Anvil - a better option.
- Tank commander upgrade added
- Reload from 6.125/7 to 6.125
- Population from 19 to 18

Very welcome change as it makes Anvil and Churchills more attractive, along with the Heavy Engineer improvement.


I don't think it needs any nerfs, its high rear armor should stay as a unique feature given its size class and downsized weaponry.

Mortar Emplacement
The Mortar Emplacement has received a number of changes to make it more usable by being cheaper to initially put down. By granting only one mortar to the player, the UKF player does not need to expand a large amount of resource to get access to basic indirect-fire. The addition of the heavy mortar barrage will give the British a long-range late game artillery unit in the core.
- Cost from 350 to 250
- Now starts with one mortar active.
- 2nd Mortar can be activated by upgrading the Emplacement for 100 manpower. 20 second research.
- Can now fire a Heavy Mortar Barrage up to range 180 once Hammer or Anvil have been unlocked.
Heavy Barrage fires a total of 8 rounds into the target area with a 120 second recharge; affected by veterancy.

Very welcome usability and performance changes. The new Heavy Mortar Barrage makes foregoing artillery doctrines more forgiving. The big boom from the 120mm rounds is very satisfying too.

Firefly
The Firefly is having its turret rotation improved. Its current turret rotation speed makes it track slower than most case-mate tank destroyers. The unit's speed with veterancy is also being improved. These changes should make the unit feel more responsive.
- Veterancy 1 now grant a speed boost of +10%
- Turret horizontal and vertical traverse speed from 18 to 22
- Veterancy 2 Turret traverse speed bonus from 1.35 to 1.15

It always felt sluggish but I thought it was my imagination. I'm glad to see details like this being picked up and fixed.

I think the sandbag change combined with sector cap speed nerf is a little too much. It’s already a struggle to ascertain early map control, especially on maps with no cover. I wonder if Universal Carrier could be allowed to cap to help that situation?

I’d like to see the universal carrier have a little more utility. Maybe a recon upgrade for capping and speed bonus or something?