[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

Well the thing is imo that giving a player choices instead of "braindead" upgrades is a good thing.

The implementation of it might need fine tuning but generally allowing the player to choose where and when he want to invest is something is a good thing.

MR now is split into two type of bonus:
One global effecting Penals reinforcement and Penal/conscripts XP gain
The 7 upgrade unlock

But they didn't reduce a T4 cost.
now MR will need additional cost and time. this will put more delay for T4 unit/passive while OST can skip tech with free upgraded.

But they didn't reduce a T4 cost.

No they did not. They however made MR easier to access in T3 and they made more powerful.

now MR will need additional cost and time.

Only if one chooses to unlock it after T4. One can access it faster and it is more powerful.

this will put more delay for T4 unit/passive ...

On the other hand one has the option to stay in T3 and get more powerful bonuses earlier.

while OST can skip tech with free upgraded.

That is a silly a argument that simply is not no matter how many times some people repeat.

1) Ostheer have a linear tech system with BP thus it is impossible to skip tech.
2) Either all thing that comes with tech is "free" and all faction get "free" staff or nothing is free and all thing have a cost attached to them.

This horse is beaten to death so pls lets not resurrect it again.

Generally I suspect (one can not tell unless one does extensive testing) that Soviet infatry post patch will more powerful the prepatch.

And you want cons to perform as an exceptionally good unit? I mean alright, does grenadiers perfom like an exceptionally good unit, when they face rifles\tommies? Does volks perfom like an exceptionally good unit when they face rifles\tommies?

They were exceptional in their cost efficiency, not perfromance. 7m cons on live aren't some scary damage dealers that melt Axis infantry, it's just that they are harder to wipe and can win some engagements when in cover. That's different from tommies/rifles who are expecptional in their combat performance. Now Cons are becoming more expeensive and less potent, which, after T70 nerfs, leaves Soviet with not a single unit that is great in some department. Every other faction has some units that everybody would like to have because of their excellent performance, usefulness or efficiency. Units like MG42/PAK/P4 for OST, rifles or jacksons for USF, sturmpios or P4 for OKW, tommies or Comets for UKF... Of course, the factions pay for that with other disadvantages – limited mainline infantry power for OST, overworked Sturmpios for OKW, no heavier armour for USF, low versatility for UKF. For SOV the two defining units are 7m cons and T70 and the disadvantages were overall poor combat performance of most units and lack of expensive late game units. Now both of those core units are being nerfed hard but disadvantages are not alleviated. That's the problem.

And on a side note. Considering MR doesnt requare both molys and AT nades, you can now get it even faster then before, because most of the time you will be skipping molotovs anyway.

Nobody ever payed for the upgrade at T3. It's expensive, there are other priorities like bringing in T4 and at T3 you don't even have enough muni to upgrade the squads anyway. Pay the fuel and MP jsut to ugprade one or two squads s incredibly inefficient at that timing.

And also cons litteraly just lost 10% acc on vet3, while now they will get +20% exp just by unlocking MR, meaning that Svt\PPsH or cons with picked up weapons will vet up faster and you are no longer locked into upgrading all cons with 7men in order to get benefits from MR.

The vet bonus being global doesn't matter. By the time you now get MR, every Cons squad instantly gets ugpraded anyway, you don't have any unupgraded untis running around, and most are about to hit vet 3 already, so there is little benefit. What matters about 7m upgrade is the increased damage output, which allows cons to directly engage Axis infantry, and the 7th model which makes the squads less likely to get wiped when biggest sources of damage become explosive. The 20% XP bonus is useful only for replacing lost squads.

This feels like a changelog which is incomplete and lacks the buffs to accompany the heavy nerfs you are giving across the board.


It nerfs all the "OP" tools SU have (but reminder that they are not good enough to compete meta wise) but there's no real compensation buffs and the changes they receive seems to lack the direction they need to solve the factions ability to problem solving late game.

Longer post coming later.

This feels like a changelog which is incomplete and lacks the buffs to accompany the heavy nerfs you are giving across the board.


It nerfs all the "OP" tools SU have (but reminder that they are not good enough to compete meta wise) but there's no real compensation buffs and the changes they receive seems to lack the direction they need to solve the factions ability to problem solving late game.

+1 to that.
This is starting to look like Brit 2.0, where the faction was completely crippled and disappeared from any kind of competitive play.

This feels like a changelog which is incomplete and lacks the buffs to accompany the heavy nerfs you are giving across the board.


It nerfs all the "OP" tools SU have (but reminder that they are not good enough to compete meta wise) but there's no real compensation buffs and the changes they receive seems to lack the direction they need to solve the factions ability to problem solving late game.

Longer post coming later.

Soviets struggle at problem solving late game? Just no...

Soviets benefit the most from Osttruppen nerfs. 5men also got nerfed. Tbh though, I don't really get the conscript vet nerf because their combat strength isn't the issue. (sandbags and squad size are)

That's the problem.

T70 perfomance nerf honestly is barely feelable, it only cant wipe squads that easy now, but bleed and force them away just as good. Cons perfomance for a 240mp unit is completly fine in early game, they are alright in terms of combat perfomance vs both volks and grenadiers.

When axis get their upgrades, cons indeed do feel lacklaster, but again in case you cant\dont want to support them with either guards\shocks by that time, faster MR giving you an option to get your cons 7th upgrade. Sure you would have a window of disadvantage, but its considerably smaller now.

Nobody ever payed for the upgrade at T3. It's expensive, there are other priorities like bringing in T4 and at T3 you don't even have enough muni to upgrade the squads anyway. Pay the fuel and MP jsut to ugprade one or two squads s incredibly inefficient at that timing.

Idk really, you wont have muni only if you spend it all on mines. Both axis factions, by the time of sov T3 are able to give LMGs\STGs to most of their units and even lay mines. How soviets wont have muni for 4 cons squads by that time.
But again its not the point. You've been given an option to get MR cheaper and faster then in live. By the time you will get T4 up and running, this 20 fuel and 100mp would mean little to nothing in a global picture anyway.

The vet bonus being global doesn't matter. By the time you now get MR, every Cons squad instantly gets ugpraded anyway, you don't have any unupgraded untis running around, and most are about to hit vet 3 already, so there is little benefit. What matters about 7m upgrade is the increased damage output, which allows cons to directly engage Axis infantry, and the 7th model which makes the squads less likely to get wiped when biggest sources of damage become explosive. The 20% XP bonus is useful only for replacing lost squads.

So you want to say that by 6-7 minute mark (because this is pretty much the timing of new MR) most of your cons are vet3? Again, MR now buffs not only upgraded cons, but also cons with Svts\PPSH and penals. Before this MR was free, but completly useless in case you pick something which gave cons any weapons.

I dont understand why you are complaining about it, considering you will be able to face upgraded axis inf with 7th grade faster then before.

I dont understand why you are complaining about it, considering you will be able to face upgraded axis inf with 7th grade faster then before.

No, the 100/20 upgrade is in the live game. The only thing they did was eliminate the auto-unlock at T4 and tried to spin it by saying that they're giving us a choice. If they were wanting to make it better, they'd move it to being something that could be unlocked after T1 or T2 was built. As it is, it's a straight nerf.

No, the 100/20 upgrade is in the live game. The only thing they did was eliminate the auto-unlock at T4 and tried to spin it by saying that they're giving us a choice. If they were wanting to make it better, they'd move it to being something that could be unlocked after T1 or T2 was built. As it is, it's a straight nerf.

Incorrect.
The upgrade that's currently at T3 requires molotov and AT nades unlocked first.

Incorrect.
The upgrade that's currently at T3 requires molotov and AT nades unlocked first.

well, gotta make people want the molitov upgrade somehow right? the performance of the molitov certainly doesnt create desire....

well, gotta make people want the molitov upgrade somehow right? the performance of the molitov certainly doesnt create desire....

I honestly don't understand why Soviet AT grenades and molotovs were designed this way. Molotov should be tweaked to be the same as the USF molotov, and the AT grenade and molotov should be bundle together into a cheaper package (more expensive than an individual upgrade but cheaper than both upgrades).

I honestly don't understand why Soviet AT grenades and molotovs were designed this way. Molotov should be tweaked to be the same as the USF molotov, and the AT grenade and molotov should be bundle together into a cheaper package (more expensive than an individual upgrade but cheaper than both upgrades).

bundleing and increasing the price would actually be a nerf because the molitov, even at 10 fu and 80mp is not worth while. you compare to the lava nade that throws faster and further for only 10 mu more but almost a guarantee to get it off frontally even under mg fire tand its not hard to see why the molitov doesnt see use. 20mu to deny cover you practically have to stand in to throw and paying as much as spec ops infiltration nades AND paying for the privilege is a travesty. all bundeling will do is delay AT nades.

molitov should be cheaper and scale better with vet if its going to have a cost attatched to it. and you shpuld get resources back if when you use it if its bundeld with the AT nade because otherwise its dead weight.

The whole Mobilize Reserves ability has been butchered so many times over and the descriptions doens't really help anymore that I don't know what it stands for now.

Also I find the -10% accuracy nerf at vet3 quite drastic.

The whole Mobilize Reserves ability has been butchered so many times over and the descriptions doens't really help anymore that I don't know what it stands for now.

Also I find the -10% accuracy nerf at vet3 quite drastic.

Mobilize reserves now requires T3 only
(in live it requires either T3/Mol/AT grenades or comes T4).
Cost: 100/20

Once unlocked Penal/Conscript squads gain 20% more veterancy.
Penal squad will now reinforce with 25 instead of 27

Unlocks "mobile reserves" for conscripts (7men)
(How difficult is to get different names for different abilities really?)

Increases squad size by 1.
Reduces model reinforce cost to 18 manpower.
-30% weapon cooldown, when unit in the cover.

In sort the upgrade probably went from wait until it unlocks with T4, to get it ASAP.

Soviets struggle at problem solving late game? Just no...

Soviets benefit the most from Osttruppen nerfs. 5men also got nerfed. Tbh though, I don't really get the conscript vet nerf because their combat strength isn't the issue. (sandbags and squad size are)

I should clarify the ones they currently have right now, while not improving by much their midgame and nerfing their late game (which is fine but bring others things up in level as well).

Teamgames on linear maps against the heavy TDs.

-UKF/USF can field proper AT infantry.
PTRS are improved against mostly medium tanks in a defensive role.

-Both FF with Tulips/Jackson with turret + mobility in combination with their mediums (mobility buffs + smoke or UKF with Comets)
Right now RAM is getting butchered down. When it only needed the extreme crits removed and at most engine/heavy engine dmg on the T34. Hell i would go for a -1/-2s on the stun duration on deflect if they want to nerf it.
Su85/Su76 is your answer against vehicles and they both suck against those (because the Ele/JT are the proper hardcounter to them).

I honestly don't understand why Soviet AT grenades and molotovs were designed this way. Molotov should be tweaked to be the same as the USF molotov, and the AT grenade and molotov should be bundle together into a cheaper package (more expensive than an individual upgrade but cheaper than both upgrades).

An upgrade that boosts both AT and AI is poor design.

i dont really get the mobilize changes frankly. soviet are supposed to tech to t4 every game, so it be included was a nice bonus that brought soviet closer to inline with other factions whom all at this point get SOMETHING with a full tech. t3 isnt meant to, nor can it, stand on its own even with the upgrade. the upgrade is indeed a good looking upgrade, which is nice but now the first t34 which already comes later than p4s will come later still

soviet are still set up to crutch on the t70, even if that crutch is worse now because they dont get to benefit from a "congrats on building your first building, have everything you need for the rest of the game now" style mainline infantry

breaking up the ability further but making them passive with tech might be the best route. give the vet bonus at t3 to help make up for the lost ground of not having a weapon upgrade, make the t4 bonus the reinforcment and keep the 7 man as it is now, or even a t3 bonus if the player techs both at nades and molitovs- maybe increase the price a bit in t3 and lower it back at t4 if 7 men start flooding the field but imo cons need something given to them at t3 instead of just taking away their tools and again while the mobilize upgrade looks great, it effectivly delays t4 as a result. not an issue for the su85 and katy, but the t34 - as the undeniable worst medium armoud cant really afford to be coming even later.

unless we want to look at lowering the t34 price a bit to make skipping the upgrade to maybe get the t34 out at the same time as a p4 might be an option...

frankly if both paths of a choice are not equally attractive then its not adding a choice, its adding a cost.

An upgrade that boosts both AT and AI is poor design.

not really... weapon racks for both factions that have them unlocks both AT and AI.
if the packages onbly grant things to cons, as it does, then it doesnt matter what it adds frankly, as long as the price is right. could call it the "arming our troops for battle" bundle and it makes perfect sense design wise, assuming cons were viable without the upgrades for a time and that the upgrade is worth the cost. it would be no different than an actual tech building that gives these things, only its a sidegrade

Mobilize reserves now requires T3 only
(in live it requires either T3/Mol/AT grenades or comes T4).
Cost: 100/20

Once unlocked Penal/Conscript squads gain 20% more veterancy.
Penal squad will now reinforce with 25 instead of 27

Unlocks "mobile reserves" for conscripts (7men)
(How difficult is to get different names for different abilities really?)

Increases squad size by 1.
Reduces model reinforce cost to 18 manpower.
-30% weapon cooldown, when unit in the cover.

In sort the upgrade probably went from wait until it unlocks with T4, to get it ASAP.

Thanks! Does it really improve the cooldown in cover though? I can roughly remember that this was reverted

Thanks! Does it really improve the cooldown in cover though? I can roughly remember that this was reverted

Close enough:
"Mobilize Reserve reinforce reduction from 3 to 2; changes reinforce cost from 17 to 18
Reload cover bonus (30%)from the Mobilize Reserves has been removed."

The CD bonus which is superior to reload remains.