[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

T70 isn't obligatory. Not even in the current patch.

Yes of course... says the guy who made the soviet OP thread...

This is actually a nerf. Soviet early-mid game did not get changed that much, so the T70 is still obligatory (even the nerfed version), meaning you still need to spend the same amount of resources as in the live version, but you do not get Mobilized reserves for free anymore after tech up. So you must delay either your first or second T4 vehicle.

Precisely, you need to buy the upgrade regardless of tech which will delay your tier 4 vehicles including ones from commanders. Its almost effectively a cost increase to tech which I assume is a bid to make tier 3 more desirable but its feeling now restrictive and forced.

Again who thought its was to oppressive about unlocking at tier 4 for free?

This is actually a nerf. Soviet early-mid game did not get changed that much, so the T70 is still obligatory (even the nerfed version), meaning you still need to spend the same amount of resources as in the live version, but you do not get Mobilized reserves for free anymore after tech up. So you must delay either your first or second T4 vehicle.

Mobilize reserves is actually buffed:

Mobilize Reserves

Show Spoiler

In sort for no longer coming with T4 it now:
is available with less tech
XP gain now effects all conscripts without having to upgrade them
Now effect penals

Overall a buff.

Actually the blobing for soviet has become allot more viable with:
Cheaper and faster healing
Less bleed for Penal
Better AT with 3 PTRS
Earlier effects of mobilize reserves for all infantries

Mechanized Armor Kampenya no longer grants Mobilized Reserves for free.
but for OST they grants passive ALL OUT WARS for free.
(now both gain effect to all unit)

Why balanced team like to give an free upgrade tech with able to skipped once. but like to put a delay by put its upgrade cost and time for Allies. specially soviet they timing of T4 tank are already bad.

Mobilize reserves is actually buffed:

Mobilize Reserves

Show Spoiler

In sort for no longer coming with T4 it now:
is available with less tech
XP gain now effects all conscripts without upgrading
Now effect penals

Overall a buff.

Yes mobilized reserves itself is getting buffed which makes tier 3 and going MR desirable (might be op or not havnt tested) but your failing to see the bigger picture here. Making it available earlier and then buffing it whiles technically nerfing all of tier 4 is the problem which no one has complained about before.

Edit: Its creating 2 more problems.

Ram requires 50% or less health to trigger.

Active ramming when 50% or less health. I think T-34 will got killed before it can hit a target

Yes mobilized reserves itself is getting buffed which makes tier 3 and going MR desirable (might be op or not havnt tested) but your failing to see the bigger picture here. Making it available earlier and then buffing it whiles technically nerfing all of tier 4 is the problem which no one has complained about before.

I did not describe the changes as good. Imo it is bad.

I have simply pointed out that MR was buffed this patch in a major way not nerfed.

As for the T4 is still optimal you can get the MR before of after building T4 so it decision the player has to make which in my opinion is a good thing.

Precisely, you need to buy the upgrade regardless of tech which will delay your tier 4 vehicles including ones from commanders. Its almost effectively a cost increase to tech which I assume is a bid to make tier 3 more desirable but its feeling now restrictive and forced.

Again who thought its was to oppressive about unlocking at tier 4 for free?

I think there are good reasons for making Conscript late game slightly less efficient. I have also proposed a change to the timing/placement of Mobilized Reserves, although it was a bit different than this one.

Mobilize reserves is actually buffed:

Mobilize Reserves

Show Spoiler

In sort for no longer coming with T4 it now:
is available with less tech
XP gain now effects all conscripts without having to upgrade them
Now effect penals

Overall a buff.

My arguments were all pointing towards Conscript builds. Since people usually use either Cons or Penals (rarely both and I have not seen a backtech from Con/T2 into T1), it is not a buff to Conscript builds if Penals are affected as well.
I am not quite sure where the tech is placed now. HQ? Or still T3? And although it might be available earlier, upgraded Conscripts are in my eyes not strong enough to hold the line by themselves. So at least fuel/MP wise, you now pay more than previously.

The global upgrade instead of squad-based is a fair point. I think that this is a very bad idea by the balance team though. Soviets had a good way to dump 150-200 munis into their mainline infantry. Now this is excess munis that will be spent elsewhere. Additionally, PPsHs are literally exclusive with the reserves upgrade and will be marginalized even further. Plus you cannot pickup weapons any more (I know the upgrade is better, still this option is taken away for not much reason). I hope the global upgrade will be reverted.

I did not describe the changes as good. Imo it is bad.

I have simply pointed out that MR was buffed this patch in a major way not nerfed.

As for the T4 is still optimal you can get the MR before of after building T4 so it decision the player has to make which in my opinion is a good thing.

Can you please give me a reason why this so called 'choice' needed to be happen that you have to purchase the upgrade even once your at tier 4?

Regardless how its spun, it will delay your infantry upgrades or your tanks.

Ill add I dont like the idea of global upgrade at all, see my post in the ukf thread that I replied to you.

T70 isn't obligatory. Not even in the current patch.

My experience is quite different from that unless you maybe go SVT Cons. And by the discussions we had about the T70 already in this forum, I think many other players (and not only scrubs like me) see it similarly:
Soviet early-mid game does not have much to offer. You start loosing the infantry war from minute 5-7 onwards, and playing 10 minutes on the backfoot until you get your medium is often too long.

We do not see the M5 and SU76 although at least the SU76 has decent uses because of a very strong T70. Still, even will a very strong T70 Soviets don't roflstomp other factions. It's fair to assume therefore that the T70 is a strong early-mid unit in an otherwise very weak early-mid faction.

Can you please give me a reason why this so called 'choice' needed to be happen that you have to purchase the upgrade even once your at tier 4?

Regardless how its spun, it will delay your infantry upgrades or your tanks.

Bad question to ask someone on a holy crusade to nerf every single soviet unit to the ground.

Now, mobilize reserves was good alternative for T3 when it was still in T4 as free choice, soviets already pay hefty sum for tech+sides, but now its really not a choice at all, you have to buy it, so soviet side tech cost increase even further because apparently most expensive tech isn't expensive enough.

Penal vet addition feels completely useless, I can't see a single person getting the upgrade for penals alone and it seems like the new "+10% vet3 to help with scaling late game" solution, it isn't going to help on the long run at all.

Con 10% vet3 acc will be missed, but I do understand why its being removed, without it at least if there will be a need 7th man can be buffed directly, but ppsh cons will get a noticeable clap for scaling, they already were worthless pre vet3 anyway.

I'm indifferent to ram changes, I already gave up on the ability being usable or useful, but its completely irrelevant that T34 gets engine crit instead of immobilize crit, when due to health limit its guaranteed loss of a tank now. Just stop pretending like you did with demo charge and remove and replace ram with something actually useful.

The global upgrade instead of squad-based is a fair point. I think that this is a very bad idea by the balance team though. Soviets had a good way to dump 150-200 munis into their mainline infantry. Now this is excess munis that will be spent elsewhere. Additionally, PPsHs are literally exclusive with the reserves upgrade and will be marginalized even further. Plus you cannot pickup weapons any more (I know the upgrade is better, still this option is taken away for not much reason). I hope the global upgrade will be reverted.

Cons still have to upgrade individually to 7 men, only the veterancy bonus from the upgrade was moved to the tech itself so it'll affect all types of Cons squads.

I think there are good reasons for making Conscript late game slightly less efficient. I have also proposed a change to the timing/placement of Mobilized Reserves, although it was a bit different than this one.

Cons are too good late game, but is a appropriate nerf is by increasing the resource investment? Because I would believe that's just delaying timing if you dont avoid tier 4 for the moment( and penals as well). The 10% accuracy wasn't needed and maybe reduce their veterancy bonuses but give some to cons earlier?

Global upgrades are something I dont like. Everything should need muni invested to make a unit preform better or have better capabilities. This applies to everything from weapon upgrades to throwing grenades. They cost fuel and manpower to tech but you still need to use muni to get the most out of them.

Ill add that veterancy isnt nearly as big as well, 5 man.

Global upgrades are something I dont like.

I do, they allow additional timing, decision making and cost effectiveness balancing layer.
The problem stems however from the fact that exclusively 1 side of the conflict has them while another freeloads on their regular tech with grand total of zero additional investments outside of obligatory healing, so you end up with 1 side having to make economical decisions and consider if they need X or can go about without it, while other side just gets everything.

Cons still have to upgrade individually to 7 men, only the veterancy bonus from the upgrade was moved to the tech itself so it'll affect all types of Cons squads.

Thanks for the clarification, it was not clear for me from reading the preview notes.

Makes a lot more sense!

Be calm friends, don't attack the balance team in every thing u think that it is wrong, balancing is not an easy task, instead just say your ideas and opinions to help them , and hopefully they will make the right changes for balancing this great game.

I do, they allow additional timing, decision making and cost effectiveness balancing layer.
The problem stems however from the fact that exclusively 1 side of the conflict has them while another freeloads on their regular tech with grand total of zero additional investments outside of obligatory healing, so you end up with 1 side having to make economical decisions and consider if they need X or can go about without it, while other side just gets everything.

I get where your coming from, Ill ment I dont like global upgrades in COH2 because of the exact reasons you have mentioned.

Be calm friends, don't attack the balance team in every thing u think that it is wrong, balancing is not an easy task, instead just say your ideas and opinions to help them , and hopefully they will make the right changes for balancing this great game.

Heres an idea... stop nerfing sov... the dead horse doesnt need further beating...

Be calm friends, don't attack the balance team in every thing u think that it is wrong, balancing is not an easy task, instead just say your ideas and opinions to help them , and hopefully they will make the right changes for balancing this great game.

Do they hear? T-34s have long been in need of reworking. We've been talking about this for several years now. Instead of throwing out Ram and giving the T-34 really useful abilities, this ability is already being masturbated to V 3.0.

Nerfing Conscripts seems very weird considering how incredibly good Riflemen and Infantry Sections are allowed to be.

Doesn't make much sense and if the balance team really wanted to nerf Conscripts in the late game they should buff their early game as compensation.