[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

could the T-34/85's Vet 1 be change to something more useful like a Speed boost ability to help it flank axis tank destroyers

The AA nerf to the M5 is way too much.

It was overbuffed in a previous patch and for a long time it has been able to destroy planes instantly. This is broken and is being brought in line with all other AA. It also has instant set-up time unlike other similar vehicles. This is a totally fair change.



It is still plenty fast: https://youtu.be/PwiVqcj1tIU?t=353

there's no reason for the maxim to need munitions on a timed ability to do what any other machinegun does out of the box for free but here we are...

impressive double standards by vipper....

Well I mean.. There's the whole 6 man crew thing....

Lowering the rear armour on the isu is the right thing to do. Diving on and flanking a 70 range unit shouldn't be entirely RNG. Pronlems with other scenarios should be addressed of course but this one IS being addressed. It won't effect any player that doesn't get outplayed so I'm certain you won't even notice the change.

It was overbuffed in a previous patch and for a long time it has been able to destroy planes instantly. This is broken and is being brought in line with all other AA. It also has instant set-up time unlike other similar vehicles. This is a totally fair change.



It is still plenty fast: https://youtu.be/PwiVqcj1tIU?t=353

Thing is though... Other factions have more than 1 thing to shoot at planes.
Not to say it didn't need toned down but being a cut above was fine as it lacked alternatives as well as survival bonuses all other AA have.

Well I mean.. There's the whole 6 man crew thing....

Well, sure, but deathloop is a thing, too, mate.

Well, sure, but deathloop is a thing, too, mate.

Definitely a factor but the 6 man crew is a factor that helps make up for that (or maybe deathloop helps make up for the 6 man?)
The combination of 6 men to spread out small arms across and merge to keep it firing can not be understated. I've been very vocal for the exact change they are trying because mg performance shouldn't be vet gated but the maxim requires a delicate touch. At any rate pretendimg the maxim is exactly like other mgs and to b balanced like them is just foolish and undercuts your debating. It's a completely different unit with completely different supports than any other factions mgs and it can't be treated like that isn't the case

Well I mean.. There's the whole 6 man crew thing....

there's also the fact that it has a 4 second suppression time instead of 1.23 (for the mg42) which is definitely far more significant than the whole 6 man thing..


and then there's the smaller arc and the deathloop...





if the maxim at least took 2 seconds to suppress and had a larger arc it would be fair but no... the thing actually takes 4 seconds to suppress which is a 300% increase in time to suppress... in turn a maxim is only 33% more durable than an mg42...

there's also the fact that it has a 4 second suppression time instead of 1.23 (for the mg42) which is definitely far more significant than the whole 6 man thing..


and then there's the smaller arc and the deathloop...





if the maxim at least took 2 seconds to suppress and had a larger arc it would be fair but no... the thing actually takes 4 seconds to suppress which is a 300% increase in time to suppress... in turn a maxim is only 33% more durable than an mg42...

Read the above post.

Do you know what happens when you allow a 6 man mg to suppress in 2 seconds? Anyone who played the game a few years ago will unhappily tell you....

Access to sustained fire should be sufficient for the maxim it do its job. There's some other things I'd like to see them try but this will at the minimum allow a recrewed maxim to no be a waste.

Also the maxim has 50% more durability than an mg42

Also comparing it to the mg42 performance is slightly wrong because the mg42 is specifically better than the best to fill the star role of the defensive Ostheer. Kinda like comparing units to rifles.

how about ram becomes available once t34 is 30% health or main gun destory.

that will make more sense to sacrifice a damaged tank. and can be shot down with the lower health while charging towards you.

30% health is 192hp.

instead of locking behind vet1, which is a bit harsh imo.

how about ram becomes available once t34 is 30% health or main gun destory.

that will make more sense to sacrifice a damaged tank. and can be shot down with the lower health while charging towards you.

30% health is 192hp.

instead of locking behind vet1, which is a bit harsh imo.

Both are no good imo. Every gun bigger then a ostwind will pen the t34 with ease. Even ostwinds and flak hq will pen it quite frequently. The t34 will almost never connect or use ram at all with either.

Just replace ram with something worth wile

Is not the "Secure Mode" of the T34 its main ability with the ramming being a bonus feature? It's an extra ability to use in a desperate or high reward scenario.





The energy and time dedicated to obsessing over a bonus feature would be better spent on streamlining problematic aspects of SOV.

Both are no good imo. Every gun bigger then a ostwind will pen the t34 with ease. Even ostwinds and flak hq will pen it quite frequently. The t34 will almost never connect or use ram at all with either.

Just replace ram with something worth wile

thats the point though, to give a counter against ram. 192hp will need 2 shots.

also sov player can use the bonus ram feature as a last ditch payoff in the heat of battle.
rather than a planned assualt.

how about ram becomes available once t34 is 30% health or main gun destory.

I like the idea of moving ram back to vet 0 but adding a requirement of say 50% hp or below.

That would solve the problem of building/using a fresh T-34 and running it straight into an enemy tank out of nowhere to follow up with an offmap (imo the main problem with ram), while keeping the original intention of being a last ditch effort to get some value out of a dying unit.

When going after heavies it would take careful timing and quite a bit of gambling to have it willingly take damage, before being able to activate the ram and then hope it doesn't die before it can ram. It would give the enemy player more time to sense what is going on and more time to react.

As a suggestion: Would really like to see the allied 'supply drop' replaced with the vastly superior axis version.

100 muni for 30 fuel is a piss poor deal.

As a suggestion: Would really like to see the allied 'supply drop' replaced with the vastly superior axis version.

100 muni for 30 fuel is a piss poor deal.

It is not is actually close to the standard ratio 1 fu/3 mu/ 5mp

Read the above post.

Do you know what happens when you allow a 6 man mg to suppress in 2 seconds? Anyone who played the game a few years ago will unhappily tell you....

the old maxim had 3 times its current suppression and setup in 1.5 seconds instead of 3...

what made the old maxim OP was never its suppression nor 6 man but its 1.5 second setup time.. it essentially allowed the soviet player to replace conscripts as line infantry but that's already long gone... the maxim now setups like ANY OTHER MG therefore it should be treated LIKE ANY OTHER MG


Access to sustained fire should be sufficient for the maxim it do its job. There's some other things I'd like to see them try but this will at the minimum allow a recrewed maxim to no be a waste.

Also the maxim has 50% more durability than an mg42

ah yes the MG42 has only 33% the durability of the maxim/maxim has 50% more durability than the MG42... still the 300% increase in suppression time is absolutely bonkers...

Also comparing it to the mg42 performance is slightly wrong because the mg42 is specifically better than the best to fill the star role of the defensive Ostheer. Kinda like comparing units to rifles.

why though? the soviets now have an outright terrible early to mid stock/nondoctrinal lineup against OST... SOV has to contend with 3 minute pgrens 222 flame halftrack MG42 and grens with nothing but conscripts and engineers and the zis 3 all the way until the T-70...

the soviets basically have no answer to 3 minute panzergrenadiers...
and are absolutely helpless nondoctrinally against the 4 minute flame HT and 222...
the maxim is still dirt shit compared to the MG42
conscripts are basically grens but have to pay extra fuel and mp to achieve parity soo basically suck bad...
engineers + merge and the zis 3 are the only real silver lining in this lineup... buffing the maxim at least to MG42 standards makes this lineup a little more fair unless the 4 minute flame HT AND the 3 minute panzergrens are removed/nerfed AND molly/ATnade is reworked

I like the idea of moving ram back to vet 0 but adding a requirement of say 50% hp or below.

That would solve the problem of building/using a fresh T-34 and running it straight into an enemy tank out of nowhere to follow up with an offmap (imo the main problem with ram), while keeping the original intention of being a last ditch effort to get some value out of a dying unit.

When going after heavies it would take careful timing and quite a bit of gambling to have it willingly take damage, before being able to activate the ram and then hope it doesn't die before it can ram. It would give the enemy player more time to sense what is going on and more time to react.

This is a much better idea in my opinion. Personally I usually don't use ram unless I think the tank cannot be saved or I'm trying to kamikaze anyway.

But I think it's important to look at why Ram + Off-Map is the go-to method for dealing with Elefant / Jagdtiger despite the combined cost in Manpower, Fuel, and Munitions. The Elefant and Jagdtiger are heavy casemate tank destroyers with 110 Rear Armor and 1040HP, the SU-85 cannot challenge them because it is woefully outranged and outgunned, so they must flank it with T-34-76 but this is not successful either because the immense HP and occasional bouncing mean that you could leave it idle and alone and it'll take a pair of T-34-76's twenty seconds to kill it.

Unlike facing the ISU-152, the Soviets don't have a Panther they can send forth to poke holes in the front or front sides without risking swift annihilation. An Elefant does 300 damage, so a shot to an SU-85 that dare challenge it will put it down to 340HP in a single counter-hit. An ISU does 240 damage, so if a Panther steps up to challenge it, a successful counter-hit will only put it down to 720.

any ram nerfs need to be done in lieu of a T-34 buff... the base T-34 is pretty terrible to begin with anyways...

This is a much better idea in my opinion. Personally I usually don't use ram unless I think the tank cannot be saved or I'm trying to kamikaze anyway.

But I think it's important to look at why Ram + Off-Map is the go-to method for dealing with Elefant / Jagdtiger despite the combined cost in Manpower, Fuel, and Munitions. The Elefant and Jagdtiger are heavy casemate tank destroyers with 110 Rear Armor and 1040HP, the SU-85 cannot challenge them because it is woefully outranged and outgunned, so they must flank it with T-34-76 but this is not successful either because the immense HP and occasional bouncing mean that you could leave it idle and alone and it'll take a pair of T-34-76's twenty seconds to kill it.

Unlike facing the ISU-152, the Soviets don't have a Panther they can send forth to poke holes in the front or front sides without risking swift annihilation. An Elefant does 300 damage, so a shot to an SU-85 that dare challenge it will put it down to 340HP in a single counter-hit. An ISU does 240 damage, so if a Panther steps up to challenge it, a successful counter-hit will only put it down to 720.

You can always try to kill it with Soviets amazing AT infantry. It only takes like 10 minutes to kill an Elephant with AT rifles.

thats the point though, to give a counter against ram. 192hp will need 2 shots.

also sov player can use the bonus ram feature as a last ditch payoff in the heat of battle.
rather than a planned assualt.

A bonus feuture wich will cost you the tank worth 90 fuel and 300 mp with no garantee it will do anything other then get destroyed.

It better be near indestructible/very very tiny target size during ram if it has special requirements such as vet or an hp threshhold to be able to ram.