[Winter Balance Update] USF Feedback

I don't think the new Scott is useless but it really should get at least a small cost decrease. Nerfing it's range by 10 makes getting more than 1 pretty risky and micro intensive, so I don't think there's any reason it should still have it's old price

I don't think the new Scott is useless but it really should get at least a small cost decrease. Nerfing it's range by 10 makes getting more than 1 pretty risky and micro intensive, so I don't think there's any reason it should still have it's old price

... Shouldn't getting more than 1 be risky? I'd much rather it be risky than the oppressive... Thing.. It's been in the past.

well, with 50 range autofire going 1 or 2 Scotts is too risky ( get shot by pak, Raketten right after you fire).

well, with 50 range autofire going 1 or 2 Scotts is too risky ( get shot by pak, Raketten right after you fire).

.... Don't park it in front of a pak? Like seriously come on. You do have to play the game you know? This isn't supposed to be a tower defense game where you shoot down with minimal effort and the enemy just walks the slolim of death.

Pack Howie has been receiving nerf after nerf, but no cost reduce?
I think the unit will be not worth the cost since it is pretty expensive and pretty much useless after the patch. The 6th man doesn't make sense really since the unit itself will be pretty useless. The change seems pretty random?

Pack Howie was one of the most OP units and its cost was cheap in consideration of its power, thanks god it being nerfed.

In short: Howie power was nerfed to match its price so it doesn't need to be cheaper.

I worry about the USF in team games with the various changes meant to curb their late game power. Like is it really necessary to have that 110 pop cap punishment? They already have only a couple non doc things going for them such as the Jackson. However stuff like the scott ain't exactly a super powerful unit even with the buffs and doesn't measure up as much compared to like rocket artillery in the late game. I hope this is considered what the Allies will have to handle stuffy like spotting scope elefants and what not in team games after some of these changes.

As for the scott itself what if you were to replace the smoke barrage with something like White Phosphorus Barrage? Obviously it should have a monitions cost and would likely need to be locked behind vet or something but it would be an effective way to make the scott have a strong area denial aspect to it. Just an idea to give it a stronger identity and role in the USF arsenal.

I worry about the USF in team games with the various changes meant to curb their late game power. Like is it really necessary to have that 110 pop cap punishment? They already have only a couple non doc things going for them such as the Jackson. However stuff like the scott ain't exactly a super powerful unit even with the buffs and doesn't measure up as much compared to like rocket artillery in the late game. I hope this is considered what the Allies will have to handle stuffy like spotting scope elefants and what not in team games after some of these changes.

As for the scott itself what if you were to replace the smoke barrage with something like White Phosphorus Barrage? Obviously it should have a monitions cost and would likely need to be locked behind vet or something but it would be an effective way to make the scott have a strong area denial aspect to it. Just an idea to give it a stronger identity and role in the USF arsenal.

breh you must be joking with that 110 pop cap talk, it's OPPRESIVE vsing an American who can just be like 'LMAO decrew build another tank/get more resources'

... Shouldn't getting more than 1 be risky? I'd much rather it be risky than the oppressive... Thing.. It's been in the past.

Yeah...? I don't think I said it shouldn't be. I also don't want to be the way it was in the past. My point is that with new nerfs it would be very risky even with a cost decrease. Only reason to keep old price with nerfs like that is if we're worried about people getting multiple

We shouldn't be worried about people getting multiple, it just won't be practical, even with a slightly lower cost. It just doesn't seem to be worth 75 fuel anymore

I worry about the USF in team games with the various changes meant to curb their late game power. Like is it really necessary to have that 110 pop cap punishment? They already have only a couple non doc things going for them such as the Jackson. However stuff like the scott ain't exactly a super powerful unit even with the buffs and doesn't measure up as much compared to like rocket artillery in the late game. I hope this is considered what the Allies will have to handle stuffy like spotting scope elefants and what not in team games after some of these changes.

As for the scott itself what if you were to replace the smoke barrage with something like White Phosphorus Barrage? Obviously it should have a monitions cost and would likely need to be locked behind vet or something but it would be an effective way to make the scott have a strong area denial aspect to it. Just an idea to give it a stronger identity and role in the USF arsenal.

Elefant can not upgrade to spotting scope and spotting scope has been nefred to ground.

There allied unit that can spot on the move while spotting scope need to stationary.

Elefant can not upgrade to spotting scope and spotting scope has been nefred to ground.

There allied unit that can spot on the move while spotting scope need to stationary.

spotting is part of the doctrine ability, unfair to remove it without adding anything back.

at most elefant spotting scope is activated same as su85 focus sight.

I don't think the new Scott is useless but it really should get at least a small cost decrease. Nerfing it's range by 10 makes getting more than 1 pretty risky and micro intensive, so I don't think there's any reason it should still have it's old price

It is because it fails to achieve anything useful on a game. People have to stop thinking balance in a vacuum and spreadsheet stats and start asking themselves where do you put the scott on your roaster on 1vs1 or teamgame?

Does the balance change make the unit more useful on 1vs1? no - result no one will ever use it anymore here.
Does the balance change keep the usefulness of the unit on teamgame? no because Priest or Calliope are 10 times better for their effectiveness/price and those are on par with other factions counterparts. At the moment with this patch the scott doesn't achieve anything relevant, it was suppose to be oppressive because that was its main function.

Now that it's gone, what do you build the scott for? That's a real question because in my opinion there is not a single situation where I would think "I need a scott". The balance team is just killing USF late game vs heavy support unit strategy, as per this patch USF will be 100% dependent on doctrine to counter it.

.... Don't park it in front of a pak? Like seriously come on. You do have to play the game you know? This isn't supposed to be a tower defense game where you shoot down with minimal effort and the enemy just walks the slolim of death.

Flanking with indirect fire units isn't exactly the intended use of INDIRECT fire units.
That's like being forced to flank HMG with a mortar.
Tho I do get all the butthurt about the scott autofire and do hope barrage ends up not useless.

USF scott new normal play
nerf effective for counter blob
but better for deal weapon team like HMG AT gun

ok need solution for repel blob .50hmg or M15 ?

Just tested AA HT in cheat mod. It's still useless in AA. Not because of the power, but the horrible tracking and rotating vehicle. Don't know if it's just bad luck but I tested 10 recons and 10 overwatches. AA HT managed to shoot down 6/10 recon planes and only one overwatch it managed to shoot down all the planes.
For a unit that has piss poor AI power (unless completely out of cover, then it's great), have to pull a handbrake to be able to direct stationary cannon shots (without it constantly rotating), and is a 2 shot (handbrake usually leads to death if you are in range of any AT gun), I don't think that a tiered AA unit should be so piss poor in AA department. Again, it's design is horrible with it's constant need to rotate the front of the vehicle, while it can only fire from the back.

USF Scott is still useless in teamgames. Played against AI Experts in 3v3 on Lienne a couple of games. Since AI expert doesn't blob and has excellent micromanagement (Basically capping the whole area constantly), it was useless vs targets on the move and any sort of AI, unless they were completely stationary. Great vs team weapons though.
Didn't bother building a pak howi, instead tested that thing, again, in cheat mode. Made a couple of blobs and in a perfect scenario: 3 squads blobbed up and stationary, it did dmg but needed 4 shots to effectively drop the HP down to 50-70% on all squads (It was a dense blob). Should that blob move, I'm guessing pak would be useless. Barrage still strong, nothing changed there. Again, useful only vs static but it does induce a world of hurt.

I'm guessing good changes for 1v1 but 3v3+ is getting a hard nerf on USF. Don't see how their two most prominent indirects that counter blobs (pak + scott), with these nerfs can fulfill their role in larger modes with more units. Scott I can see as a vehicle you get only to counter static weapon teams with poor reaction time players.
Pak can still be useful on the barrages when somebody is capping (need 2x pak for that since one can easily reposition), but autofire, in all of the games I played, custom and vs AI 3v3s, it's autofire was downright useless.
I can see that these changes would lead to a more balanced 1v1 vs USF, although I didn't see a lot of scotts or paks in 1v1s as it is.

Just tested AA HT in cheat mod. It's still useless in AA. Not because of the power, but the horrible tracking and rotating vehicle. Don't know if it's just bad luck but I tested 10 recons and 10 overwatches. AA HT managed to shoot down 6/10 recon planes and only one overwatch it managed to shoot down all the planes.
For a unit that has piss poor AI power (unless completely out of cover, then it's great), have to pull a handbrake to be able to direct stationary cannon shots (without it constantly rotating), and is a 2 shot (handbrake usually leads to death if you are in range of any AT gun), I don't think that a tiered AA unit should be so piss poor in AA department. Again, it's design is horrible with it's constant need to rotate the front of the vehicle, while it can only fire from the back.
...

Did you actually set it in AA mode?

Why scott barrage is only 80 range ? Correct me if i'm wrong.
Imo Vet3 range bonus should be in vet1 or at least part of it with current performance.

Why scott barrage is only 80 range ? Correct me if i'm wrong.
Imo Vet3 range bonus should be in vet1 or at least part of it with current performance.

Barrage has a range of 80 how much in your opinion should it be?

With range 80 it already out-ranges all axis stock AT weapons. I am not sure why you say "only".

Just tested AA HT in cheat mod. It's still useless in AA. Not because of the power, but the horrible tracking and rotating vehicle.

Use the new AA mode. It gives it 360 degrees rotation. Tracking is no longer an issue.

Barrage has a range of 80 how much in your opinion should it be?

With range 80 it already out-ranges all axis stock AT weapons. I am not sure why you say "only".

100 barrage range at vet1 shoudnt be a problem

Use the new AA mode. It gives it 360 degrees rotation. Tracking is no longer an issue.

Yeah, the AA mode is good. Basically after the initial window of opportunity for AA HT, you just park it somewhere safe and pop the AA mode. Yeah, my bad. It's good.
Ignore the previous thread about the piss poor AA.