[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

There is no magical thing called "allied factions" that has it all.
Talk specifics or stop talking about nothing.

USF having major recon is NOT an excuse to be salty about soviet flares.

Pretty sure I was talking about UKF frontline flares, and offmap recon planes, not Soviet mortar flares, thanks.

I don't really like flares in general, but I was indeed talking specifics.

"Allied factions" is an important distinction, incidentally, due to the fact teamgames exist. This is why SpecOps flares are even an issue. Because of teamgames.
The OKW SpecOps player needs another player to make Flares truly an issue, he can't do that much of note with them himself, other than Stukaing. You're being a little disingenuous here.

Pretty sure I was talking about UKF frontline flares, and offmap recon planes, not Soviet mortar flares, thanks.

I don't really like flares in general, but I was indeed talking specifics.

"Allied factions" is an important distinction, incidentally, due to the fact teamgames exist. This is why SpecOps flares are even an issue. Because of teamgames.
The OKW SpecOps player needs another player to make Flares truly an issue, he can't do that much of note with them himself, other than Stukaing. You're being a little disingenuous here.

Then in the future, read the discussion from the start, so you don't randomly chime in with irrelevant stuff.

Then in the future, read the discussion from the start, so you don't randomly chime in with irrelevant stuff.

I suppose that's why you started talking about OKW flares when the guy was originally talking about Soviet flares, eh? Don't be a dickhead, dude.

I suppose that's why you started talking about OKW flares when the guy was originally talking about Soviet flares, eh? Don't be a dickhead, dude.

Yes.
He had a hard time grasping the idea that the overpowered one is not the one he have chosen to claim as one and needed a little guidance.
Then randomness started.

Now all we need is certain way too active poster to barge in and claim how none of the allied ones should exist and how all of the axis ones are too weak for this to be complete.

Just to clarify, i am calling for flares reveal times to be shortened.

Be it okw, ukf or sov mortar flares.

Right now, it makes repositioning and hiding too hard when the pace of games are already so high.

While we dont get rid of flares, but a shortened time seems fair facts. Since flares cant be shot down by AA, uncounterable eek!

Yes.
He had a hard time grasping the idea that the overpowered one is not the one he have chosen to claim as one and needed a little guidance.
Then randomness started.

Now all we need is certain way too active poster to barge in and claim how none of the allied ones should exist and how all of the axis ones are too weak for this to be complete.

That's cute, though I advocated that all recon be given a pass, because it's all over the place as far as balance is concerned.

"Randomness"

That's cute, though I advocated that all recon be given a pass, because it's all over the place as far as balance is concerned.

"Randomness"

I'm quite positive what you have on mind is intended and called asymmetric balance.

Different factions have different things that work in different way when it comes to recon and outside of okw spec ops flares, not a single one oversteps its usefulness or value.

Recon planes are generally the worst of the bunch.
USF recon planes pass the whole area rather quickly and can be used to either get a general sense of the enemy whereabouts or to quickly coordinate a strike. Coordination being the key word cause the plane will reveal the target for a second at most. Vet or no vet. Plus they can be shot down unless it's from the vetted major. The 2nd plane is quite hard to shoot down because generally you don't have AA in base.
The recon overpass which constantly circles around is also easily countered by AA. A bit better than USF major but still easy to counter.

Mortar flares are generally used before advancing to sort of self spot. As such are completely normal and balanced.
UKF frontlines flares are also the same way. Useless if you're trying to retake the area, very much useful if trying to defend it.

OKW flares can be used for anything. Self spotting a piece of map before advancing or just shelling MLs or w/e.

UKF fronline flares need a nerf in cooldown or length or price. I am not sure how long is the CD and how long they last so somebody can correct me if they already have a long enough CD or short enough length.
OKW flares need a nerf in price or length or CD, or combined. Again, if I'm not mistaken they are 50 munitions, low CD?

Rest of the flares are fine, as they have limited options.

The callin flares are sort of irrelevant though, they're practically useless in 90% of cases. Other than that, yeah, i agree.

Call in flares are difficult to use but far from useless, if one simply combined them with an off-map one can bomb any part of the map.They should simply be removed.

But those are not the only scouting options for UKF "assault" and "mortar cover" also provide unncounterable vision.

Recon planes in general have sort of a duality, they rely entirely on luck to do their job, and so those that come from one's own base sector are often rather useless, but those that come from opposing base sectors are FAR too effective.

Major/ UKF assault Officer and UHU in patch all have planes that can be spawned from enemy base to spot and destroy enemy howitzers (or other important targets) with off maps.

The claim that is privilege of OKW flares is simply false.

mortar flares need to share CD.

also please dont go ahead with the mortar smoke barrage buff.

like flares, the smoke barrage buff kills the fun of probing and flanking. but hey i guess it make 'competitive' plays more watchable, since armies can rush in and clear positions now.

mortar flares need to share CD.

also please dont go ahead with the mortar smoke barrage buff.

like flares, the smoke barrage buff kills the fun of probing and flanking. but hey i guess it make 'competitive' plays more watchable, since armies can rush in and clear positions now.

HMGs (and Axis moreso with their top performance) need to have counters. If barrages can't kill them reliably enough, something else must, and Mortars are their intended counter.

HMGs (and Axis moreso with their top performance) need to have counters. If barrages can't kill them reliably enough, something else must, and Mortars are their intended counter.

But mortars counters are already present in live games!

this patch just makes it even easier.

again, a push towards eeek-sports, viewerships, faster game pacing. eeeek!

But mortars counters are already present in live games!

this patch just makes it even easier.

again, a push towards eeek-sports, viewerships, faster game pacing. eeeek!

You have a point, I agree. I don't like fast pacing either.


In my mind it's important for weapon teams to be strong and a combined arms force to win against a simple infantry blob. Mortars feel lackluster even against their intended target, HMGs.


Right now I feel infantry, especially WFA, is too strong and weapon teams have been overshadowed, but it's too late to change that.

Which is why I don't like this AT gun nerf from patch preview V4 in favor of infantry at all:

All mobile anti-tank gun squads - Pak, 6 Pounder, ZiS-3, Soviet 45mm, Raketenwerfer, 57mm - have an innate received accuracy penalty of +10%; this stacks with the type of entity that recrews the gun. Example: Conscripts recrewing an anti-tank gun go from 1.087 target size to 1.196; Panzergrenadiers recrewing would go from 0.8 to 0.88

Specifically this change I feel goes against the catch up mechanics of CoH2. With ATGs there's a fighting chance when you are behind on fuel and tech to make a comeback. Nerfing them is a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion.

Panther buffs???? For balance!?! The gods must be crazy....

It's a completely OP unit because it can do everything. If it is indeed designed for diving against heavy tanks then why does it need the sight range of a recon vehicle too? With it's speed 35 sight should be more than adequate to find a Churchill etc. It completely breaks combined arms and always has done.

Some bright spark mentioned that rather than reinventing the wheel why not merely revert previous nerfs. Seems sensible to me. For instance the Cromwell was a wonderful meme vehicle with it's ability to crush shrek blobs, though this was nerfed after endless moaning from very poor players who thought a shrek blob should be an I win button ( and it was) many moons ago.

It is meant to be a flanker and to finish off damaged vehicles yet good luck getting behind a reversing Panther. A pintle MG is welcome but I don't see how it helps it in it's role. Saying that I was naff at using them pre nerf ( which I think was on rotation rate) whilst watching someone handling them well was truly box office stuff.

It was a vehicle that really shone when handled with skill ( i.e. not by me) yet was nerfed into being a bland and far worse PIV by whingeing cucks and weirdos taking a great deal of flavour and playability from the UKF.

Cromwell is only getting Hunt this patch, the Churchill is getting the pintle.

Yes, Crommy got not much after its knee capping and Panther is problematic due to how it scales in team games. Lets keep those faction specific points in their respective faction discussions.

Still, reviewing previous nerfs for roll back or reanalyzing what something's job is numerically and empirically vs what its 'supposed' to do is good.

Sorry yes, though the creep towards it being merely a very much crappier PIV continues though..


"Because of the above changes, the Cromwell is losing its target size advantage over other medium tanks. This is being compensated by increasing the power of its MGs to be on-par with the Panzer IV's hull and coaxial, improving its anti-infantry effectiveness."

I seem to recall the nerf to moving accuracy was because someone thought that tanks should stop before firing.... On a cruiser tank designed for flanking... Yeah. Genius.

I don't have anything against the Cromwell being more effective AI but it just doesn't fit the role. It would certain playstyles of course though better surely to lock AI upgrades behind Anvil tech? AI in the midgame to my mind for UKF focusses on IS with Brens and possibly a Centaur or pit.

The Allies in general need something that can pick a gap and get through to damaged vehicles and mobile arty behind the lines though I'm not sure the recon element of this should be on the tank itself. Hunt seems like a gimmick.

Is there anything that could be done about grenade warnings?
Because i feel like its still happening a lot of times that my squad gives the warning way too late or not at all.

Not at all might be an exagregation, not sure anymore about my last matches.

Is there anything that could be done about grenade warnings?
Because i feel like its still happening a lot of times that my squad gives the warning way too late or not at all.

Not at all might be an exagregation, not sure anymore about my last matches.

It happens to me at times also. My guess is that it has more to do with the lag in the online game. Any patch that they make for it would likely make the game buggier. It doesn't happen to me in comp stomps so I don't think it is the game itself.

I have been testing the new mortar smoke rate of fire and while the responsiveness is good, I think the timings need to be reviewed as they are overtuned. A slight increase in the time between the shells would be preferable.


Not only is the animation ridiculous, but this reduces the total time of the sight block significantly. The shells land too quickly one after the other. I think the best rate of fire is somewhere between live and patch preview.

I have been testing the new mortar smoke rate of fire and while the responsiveness is good, I think the timings need to be reviewed as they are overtuned. A slight increase in the time between the shells would be preferable.


Not only is the animation ridiculous, but this reduces the total time of the sight block significantly. The shells land too quickly one after the other. I think the best rate of fire is somewhere between live and patch preview.

Yes the time between the order and first round landing is important not the time between shells.