[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

The main issue with the Scott is while it's very good at auto-fire, probably too good, it fails to serve as functional artillery for the late-game of USF. It's AOE profile is very good at killing models, but is very poor at wounding or damaging models which is more prominent on the barrage which is known for very poor accuracy and you need to deal good AOE damage since most shells from barrage abilities don't land directly on target or are fired from further ranges into the FOW.

It's not serving the USF faction well enough in its other function as artillery to compensate for the lack of rocket or heavy artillery, with its best performance being Sherman HE lite.

That makes sense. Although, from what I played the Scott in the preview, it seems to be overnerfed. Furthermore, how does that synergize with the nerf of pak howi? Why would somebody go for pak howi outside of static emplacements barrages? It's slow as it is so moving targets are a no-no. Both in autofire and barrage. So now you have a scott with the accurate, albeit lower damage barrage but useless autofire in 3v3+ and pak howi that is great vs encampments but also pretty useless vs anything that can move. Not to mention the existance of stukas and werfers (+ lefhs).
Of course that is from the perspective of 3v3+. Maybe in 1v1 with much less units on the fields and unit combinations, these changes work. Don't know if your team's changes will translate well into the team games. Especially the Panther that got a pretty hefty accuracy bonus on top of it's already great stats.
I frequently field pak howits in pairs in 3v3s and while truly great at both damaging and killing models, experienced players that I played against back when I was rank 13, easily denied any sort of pak play with counter barrage or stukas.


Same as how ostruppen deserve a nerf in 1v1 modes but not in 3v3+. Or how 5 men grens are OP in 1v1 and not in 3v3, etc.
Best example would be the M20 buff. While it's useless in 1v1s, it's pretty pretty good in 3v3. Good utility for late game. That 20 seconds quasi buff won't convince anyone to go for it in 1v1 but won't make no difference in 3v3s.

I trust you know what you are doing and would only ask that you do not balance the game around 1v1 only.

I just want to say that there is absolutely no reason for recovery sappers to reinforce at 28mp, unless they either get the same ability as sturms have to take away the sweeper or come in already at 5 man.

The main issue with the Scott is while it's very good at auto-fire, probably too good, it fails to serve as functional artillery for the late-game of USF. It's AOE profile is very good at killing models, but is very poor at wounding or damaging models which is more prominent on the barrage which is known for very poor accuracy and you need to deal good AOE damage since most shells from barrage abilities don't land directly on target or are fired from further ranges into the FOW.

It's not serving the USF faction well enough in its other function as artillery to compensate for the lack of rocket or heavy artillery, with its best performance being Sherman HE lite.

So why didn't you increase the range of the barrage if you want it to be usable as functional artillery? Your change made it a more expensive mortar HT with no white phos.

I just want to say that there is absolutely no reason for recovery sappers to reinforce at 28mp, unless they either get the same ability as sturms have to take away the sweeper or come in already at 5 man.

There should be a pice increasing if recovery sappers coming in 5 man.

Will we ever get a sniper for each faction? that's one of the dumbest design choices to leave'em out for USF & OKW while others have'em. #Sniperforeveryfaction

I'd like to see JLI and Pathfinders get a snipe ability, something similar to what recon tommies got in vCOH. Wouldn't be as good as getting stock snipers, but at least it'd give multiple OKW and USF commanders a reliable sniper counter.

There's an irrational hatred against snipers. Just like there is one against Tommies. People just dislike playing against them. Ironically a lot of people hate both of them and by nerfing sniper they buffed tommies.

Btw: what you described happened to the Scott. One tournament game where it performed well because OKW kept playing into it and everybody is screaming for nerfs.

Imo the only irrational hatred is towards the maxim. People almost have a meltdown towards the looney house if some one suggests the tiniest buff for it. Eveything that made it good in it golden days got nerfed.

In general, because it applies to both axis factions:

Why Panther gets better accuracy anyway?
It encourages only more of panther spam instead of using intended med armor hardcounters, JP4 and StuG.

Panther isn't inaccurate against heavies and meds just got target size decrease to increase their viability, why that change is canceled by panther accuracy buff?

Goal should be encouraging use of JP4 and StuG, not already overrepresented panther that is "answer to all" kind of unit you get without a 2nd thought about it.

Yes using heavy TDs like SU-85/M-36/Panther vs medium should be discouraged lets removed all their accuracy bonuses.

Yes using heavy TDs like SU-85/M-36/Panther vs medium should be discouraged lets removed all their accuracy bonuses.

Please remind me, which stock TD is below M-36 for USF?
And I won't mind seeing more SU-76s, you know, this unit that specifically gets buffed now so we see more of it?
Oh, and I seem to have missed accuracy buffs SU-85 and M-36 got this patch, could you please quote the relevant patch notes, so I could discourage them together with panther ones?

Please remind me, which stock TD is below M-36 for USF?

With the exception of 2 commanders (priest/caloipe) USF have tanks that can on parallel or superior to PzIV.

In addition the latest tournament proved that USF do not need M36 to deal with PzIV.

In sort you "stock" requirement does not mean a thing.

And I won't mind seeing more SU-76s, you know, this unit that specifically gets buffed now so we see more of it?

In sort you agree that SU-85 should lose its accuracy bonuses now so we can see more use of the SU-76.

Finally the JP is not cost efficient counter to mediums since more expensive than most of them.

With the exception of 2 commanders (priest/caloipe) USF have tanks that can on parallel or superior to PzIV.

In addition the latest tournament proved that USF do not need M36 to deal with PzIV.

Ok, cool, but which stock TD is below M-36?
Also, by the power of exact same argument, P4s stand up well enough to allied meds, no need to make panther stronger against them, thank you for providing this argument against the buff too.

In sort you "stock" requirement does not mean a thing.

In your head, where things are being spinned constantly maybe.
Its literally impossible to twist what I have said or misunderstand it in any way, but you still did.
I applaud thee.

In sort you agree that SU-85 should lose its accuracy bonuses now so we can see more use of the SU-76.

I see you are ever keen on trolling, purposely misreading and twisting other peoples posts as usual, so I'm terminating this discussion with my points standing.

Finally the JP is not cost efficient counter to mediums since more expensive than most of them.

SU-85 and JAckson are not cost efficient counters to mediums too, because they are more expensive.

Now watch the tournament games and see what units where used vs PzIV, you might learn something.

This goes way back to when I discussed the m4c and the 76mm. It is very efficient at wher tier 3 however, if your have a look at one of the grand final games when one of the players whet all 76mm against superior armor, he lost because he didn't have a jackson and the 76mm kept being zoned out by at guns.

Ill add not saying he whould have won if he did get a jackson but it was a better choice.

This goes way back to when I discussed the m4c and the 76mm. It is very efficient at wher tier 3 however, if your have a look at one of the grand final games when one of the players whet all 76mm against superior armor, he lost because he didn't have a jackson and the 76mm kept being zoned out by at guns.

So using medium tanks to counter TDs like the Panther and ATGs does not work, think should be expected.

My point is simply it has been argue that M36 should be anti everything (from kubel to KT) else the USF would collapse and the tournament prove that argument wrong. As you have also pointed out USF can deal with Ostheer T3.

So using medium tanks loose to a TD and ATGs think should be expected.

I point is simply it has been argue that M36 should be anti everything (from kubel to KT) else the USF would collapse and the tournament prove that argument wrong.

What exactly is the change you have in mind without saying give the usf a redesign? Because whats in the roaster is what usf has to work with and you are dreaming if usf design would ever change at this point.