OKW needs redesign?

If you have played coh2 Western front army since its launch, you will notice OKW faction has received most dramatic changes for its faction tech tree design.

However, been playing OKW quite recently, it would be good to redesign a little bit, do you agree?

1. Unlock VG panzerfaust after purchasing first SWS halftrack rather than converting it into HQ.
Comparing to Ostheer, OKW definitely has longer time/higher cost to set up first tier building. Unlock panzerfaust earlier just give them a soft counter to the light vehicle, as M3 with flame thrower is definitely too punishing for OKW early game.

2. Medic at HQ.
Struggling to heal my infantry properly if not position close to the medic truck. I believe most of OKW players just place OKW medic truck near HQ, no one ever upgrade retreating point considering its 300 MP cost.

So why not just make our job easier, move Medic research to HQ after converting truck into tier building. The cost can be adjusted slightly higher.

3. Sturmpio panzersherck cost.
So PG 2 panzerShercks cost 100 muni, why Sturmpio panzersherck cost 70? Cold immunity is no longer required, it would be more reasonable for 60 muni or 50.

Practically speaking, we'll be lucky to even get one new patch. And the only change you suggested that could be done without drastically changing the state of balance is changing Sturmpioneer panzershreck to 50/60 muni. Sander93 has already made a thread with this suggestion in his personal balance suggestions, along with letting Sturms upgrade with sweepers and shrecks IIRC.

Okay. This is a requirement for buffs, in the wrapper of the redesign. Okw has a great design. Mg, AT gun in t0. It is enough to build only one HQ, and with the first 100 fuel, you can order artillery (Walking Stuka) The earliest artillery. Oh yeah, also non doctric Heavy tank - KT.

On the contrary, the UFS design is terrible. Mg and At not in t0. They are in two different headquarters. callope in doctrine.

Okay. This is a requirement for buffs, in the wrapper of the redesign. Okw has a great design. Mg, AT gun in t0. It is enough to build only one HQ, and with the first 100 fuel, you can order artillery (Walking Stuka) The earliest artillery. Oh yeah, also non doctric Heavy tank - KT.

On the contrary, the UFS design is terrible. Mg and At not in t0. They are in two different headquarters. callope in doctrine.

MG is not available until the first building is built.

Flaktrack gun is clunky.

Obers come way too late against elite infantry/vetted mainline.

Volks bleed too heavy late game.

They need some work.

MG is not available until the first building is built.

Flaktrack gun is clunky.

Obers come way too late against elite infantry/vetted mainline.

Volks bleed too heavy late game.

They need some work.

A lot of things in the game could use work, but let's be realistic here, we'll be lucky to get another patch. I think we'll have to live with most of the problems we have right now.

Take a look at Sander's balance patch proposals. If they go live most of the things you mentioned will be solved.

MG is not available until the first building is built.

Flaktrack gun is clunky.

Obers come way too late against elite infantry/vetted mainline.

Volks bleed too heavy late game.

They need some work.

You don't need to build two QH to have MG and AT. That what i mean. Its really awesome design.

Okw has always needed redesigning. They have changed the most out of any faction by far, unless you count Brits during their alpha

At this point I don't think we're gonna get any major changes. But OKWs design has always been a problem

Oh good, so it's not just me who thought that OKW has major problems. Eg: volks behind sandbags trading evenly against LMG mainlines (UKF!!!) in open was not acceptable. Having to rely on them lategame and abandon getting Obers is well....ugly.

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KT being a glorified pillbox on slow treads might need serious looking at as well.

You already get medkits so it's not an issue. I would move the MG34 to the Medic HT and the Raken to the Light vehicle HT.

It would be interesting to include some stats from OKW tourney / showmatch success in teamgames played during the recent patches since they include some of the best players / players of equal skill. There faction synergy also comes to play which is relevant in 75% of the game modes.

At least the showmatch from last weekend was a very pleasing experience to watch due to the historically accurate outcome

One thing OKW could use imo is T0 smoke. All other factions have access to either smoke (mortars or rear echelons), or, in the case of the brits, the UC, which may bring a squad behind an mg42. OKW is limited to flanking vickers or maxims.
Personally I would replace the Sturmpio stun nade with Vet0 smoke, making it more expensive than other factions' smoke nades, while the Vet1 bonus reduces its price to bring it in-line. This is a buff, yes, but at a hefty price in early game.

Take a look at Sander's balance patch proposals. If they go live most of the things you mentioned will be solved.

You mean if he puts his fantasy changes on live Axis will have a 200% win rate.

Truly balanced.

If you have played coh2 Western front army since its launch, you will notice OKW faction has received most dramatic changes for its faction tech tree design.

However, been playing OKW quite recently, it would be good to redesign a little bit, do you agree?

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I agree with all of your 3 points, these should be change or at least the medic come from HQ should be priority: No faction ever in this game required the player to choose between teching or not.

Panzershreck upgrade on SturmPio should be 60 muni just like a normal upgrade cost.

I also feel like the infantry gun right now is too p/p: if you equip 25% ability cooldown then 2x infantry gun can rekt Allies defensive play too effective, I have seen my teammate OKW 2x infantry gun effectively counter USF Howizter and UKF Mortar bunker, inflict long term damage and only get into danger when Callipope, Katchusa or Land matress come out. ( by late game those IGs would have pay themselves long ago and cause too many mp bleed for enemy ).

Right now on maps like Rails and Metal I usually build a medic bunker for my OKW mate, make it faster for him to come out to fight rather than running back to base THEN running to his medic HQ to heal and then start attacking again

Wouldn't it be best if they just put both repair bots and medics on both tech structures?
You can pick either tech (like USF, what ever you want to go first) and on both tech buildings you can choose either repair or heal. Picking one thing locks out the other (forward retreat rework probably needed then). That way you can have tech you want without sacrificing healing. I guess that extra healing from sturmpios should be removed and instead lower the cost of shreck upgrade. If sturmpios should recieve a buff that enables them to swap between shreck and sweepers, then the upgrade bonus should be somewhat reduced I guess (since sturmpios with 1x shreck are still good at ambush AI and they can put away the sweepers).
Just my two cents

Why not just make all units and everything available from HQ? I for one am absolutely fed up to the absolute limit hlof making any choices what so ever and think the game would be a lot better if all I had to do was load in and the game made all the game play choices for me

Wouldn't it be best if they just put both repair bots and medics on both tech structures?
You can pick either tech (like USF, what ever you want to go first) and on both tech buildings you can choose either repair or heal. Picking one thing locks out the other (forward retreat rework probably needed then). That way you can have tech you want without sacrificing healing. I guess that extra healing from sturmpios should be removed and instead lower the cost of shreck upgrade. If sturmpios should recieve a buff that enables them to swap between shreck and sweepers, then the upgrade bonus should be somewhat reduced I guess (since sturmpios with 1x shreck are still good at ambush AI and they can put away the sweepers).
Just my two cents

God forbid OKW would have to make a decision that impacts timing of their units, like any other non completely linear tech faction needs to do!

Plus don't act like OKW does not have access to healing without BGHQ.
They have multiple doctrinally and non doctrinally together.

Yes

List of their problems, both UP and OP stuff:

Faust unlocked only after tech up against factions with early garrisonable clown-cars

Starting unit thats very unfair in the first min and half and then becomes very cost inneficient. The PZschreck upgrade locking out sweeper is brutal

Kubel is too squishy to be a good scout

AT gun is super cost-efficient for being the only one who can afford to go right into the front instead of hiding behind

IN general, for the whole first two minutes they are super agressive, with highest number of units, and then start fallin off, first in mid-game due to shit tech-structure and lategame to weird popcap. This "strong early, weaker later and vice-versa" concept has time and again proven to be trash design and a lotta changes were made to mitigate it over the years. OKW however remains the clearest offender.

Past T0 its:
Having to choose between "one investment only" healing and an LV tech

The forward retreat point got too overnerfed to be any use in 1s and 2s. 75% reinforce speed decrease, lock behind another tech AND 2 min cooldown is just massive overkill on somethin that can´t move and also denies you units if you lose it.

Stuka is a bad design. A+ for effort to be unique but there is a good reason why precision shot got deleted, and now we got vehicle with 6 precision shots in a line. "On the plus side" its very bad at blob countering, being mostly a guaranteed support weapon deletion tool

The Flak HQ is very very bad at killing planes, for something that now requires a toggle to do it

I dont wanna get into doctrinal stuff now, besides this one thing, which is a topic for itself and relevant to all factions: Its high time for a second wave of skillplanes nerfs!!

Revert the Raketen to what it was a couple patches ago minus the moving cloak.

Without butchering faction too much, I would only say that:

1) Fausts for sure should be unlocked on SWS deploy, while nades should be locked behind set up.

2) Without butchering healing too much, med crates should be moved to kubel, and it should be 1 crate not 3, for 10-15 munition. Right now there is no MP invesment (since you get SPs as starting unit), with creates moved to kubel, there would be MP invesment, allowing creates themself to become cheaper.
Healing shouldnt be teching factor, considering its a critical part of the gameplay.

This also will remove some pressure from STpios, aswell wont destoy OKW economy if you lose them.

3) Mech HQ Schwerer HQ should be cheaper, around 30-40 fuel to be set up, while difference in price should go to AA unlock. This will help OKW inf play, with allowing faster obersts. LMG still will be locked behind AA unlock and have corrent timing.

4) Raketen can remain cloak, while moving in clock should be replaced with something different.