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Nerf the Valentine

17 Jul 2020, 19:30 PM
#1
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 306

I serously think this unit needs to be looked at. It should either be tech binded or increase the CP. I just think this unit which cannot be snared, can contest p4's is hard to hit. And at vet 3 it's super fast and dies in 4 shots.

Something needs to go aec into valentine with 5 men is such an insane powerspike.
17 Jul 2020, 19:40 PM
#2
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 311

Agreed. Valentine has everything.
- excelent speed and acceleration.
- can deal dmg to Inf and Tanks.
- always it on the move.
- Its a call in.
- Low cost.
- Needs 4 hits to be killed (the same a every medium tank).
- It has good abilities.

If you combo it with 5men Sections, 6pdr and AEC, well, Its GG.
17 Jul 2020, 20:02 PM
#3
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 306

Ideas for nerf:

6-7cp
Tech binded
target size increase
reduce health to 400 and make it snareable
Armor nerf (P4 can bounce)


One or 2 of those nerfs not all
17 Jul 2020, 20:11 PM
#4
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 311

Ideas for nerf:

6cp
Tech binded
target size increase
reduce health to 400 and make it snareable
Armor nerf (P4 can bounce)


One pr 2 of those nerfs not all


I think reducing its Health to 400 and Tech Binded would be enough.
17 Jul 2020, 20:32 PM
#5
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

It is good but it definitely can not contest Panzer IVs. It deals 120 damage with only marginally better ROF (5.25s vs 5.75s) and it has a 4% and 8% chance to bounce a P4 shot at medium and long range, while it has a 45-55% chance to bounce on a P4H and a 57-66% chance to bounce on a P4J at medium and long ranges. Not to mention that until vet 3 it will die in 3 shots. The only thing it has going for it in this matchup is 18 target size but now that's barely better than a P4's new 20 size.

I personally think its performance is fine, and that it just needs to get a build time so it arrives a bit slower and can't be recalled as easily after losing one.
17 Jul 2020, 20:44 PM
#6
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1389 | Subs: 1

I personally think its performance is fine, and that it just needs to get a build time so it arrives a bit slower and can't be recalled as easily after losing one.


Why not just increase the price little bit, so it won't be so cost efficient, and add recharge time after it was destroyed, like with heavies.

Moving doctrinal stuff to tiers is not good idea in general, and even worse in case of UKF tech. UKF is faction, which especially overloaded with units in each tier.
17 Jul 2020, 20:59 PM
#7
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Build time or tech lock and it should be fine. It's got good performance but not overbearing.
17 Jul 2020, 21:13 PM
#8
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 281


I personally think its performance is fine, and that it just needs to get a build time so it arrives a bit slower and can't be recalled as easily after losing one.


The valentine performs like a medium tank at 5 CPs, thats not "fine". Yes, the call in button without recharge is the thing that makes its oppressive but even with a build time its simply too strong. Very fast, on top of 75% moving accuracy -iirc- makes at guns almost useless in the hands of a good player. Add the concentration barrage in the mix and youre basically dead at 5CPs when you only have one at gun.

Ye sure it doesnt beat a p4 in a 1on1 fight but it can contribute its at power against it. No other light tank (i know, its technically a medium but since it has the timing of a light tank ill go with that comparison) is able to handle infantry like a t70 and help against vehicles -except heavies- like a puma/aec on top of utility features like smoke and recon.
It is not fine


Adding a build time is the minimum nerf, id suggest a health reduction so one faust can snare it.
17 Jul 2020, 21:13 PM
#9
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Never knew the valentine could bounce a p4 shot AND 75% moving acc????? Sections have already broken all the rules of static gameplay - first u need to be stationary and in cover, then u just needed to be stationary, now u don't even need to be stationary to do decent dmg. Not surprised the Valentine just "casually" stole the USF magic ability of 75% acc.
17 Jul 2020, 21:39 PM
#10
avatar of Olvadi

Posts: 43



The valentine performs like a medium tank at 5 CPs, thats not "fine". Yes, the call in button without recharge is the thing that makes its oppressive but even with a build time its simply too strong. Very fast, on top of 75% moving accuracy -iirc- makes at guns almost useless in the hands of a good player. Add the concentration barrage in the mix and youre basically dead at 5CPs when you only have one at gun.

Ye sure it doesnt beat a p4 in a 1on1 fight but it can contribute its at power against it. No other light tank (i know, its technically a medium but since it has the timing of a light tank ill go with that comparison) is able to handle infantry like a t70 and help against vehicles -except heavies- like a puma/aec on top of utility features like smoke and recon.
It is not fine


Adding a build time is the minimum nerf, id suggest a health reduction so one faust can snare it.

+1
17 Jul 2020, 22:06 PM
#11
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Very fast, on top of 75% moving accuracy -iirc- makes at guns almost useless in the hands of a good player


It does have 0.75 moving accuracy but accuracy is not used when facing anti-tank guns or infantry. Also it has 7 speed which is indeed fast, but it's the same speed as units like the T-70 or the Stuart or the Cromwell.

It's a doctrinal unit, it's supposed to be good. Adjusting it further has to be done in a careful way. Nerfing its hitpoints to 400 so that it can get snared with one Faust would be a huge nerf. I would prefer baby steps and remove its oppressiveness (the fast call in and re-call in times) first before going after performance (which always has a good chance of ruining the unit).
17 Jul 2020, 22:21 PM
#12
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

I dont know man, but if skilled people like Terror, Olvadi, CN, and even Seeking (he said it in a streaming) and a lot of people who would post it anyways after me right now(Like Stormjager below me), say Valentine its too good, maybe.... they're right you know?
17 Jul 2020, 22:22 PM
#13
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I dont know man, but if skilled people like Terror, Olvadi, CN, and even Seeking (he said it in a streaming) and a lot of people who would post it anyways after me right now, say Valentine its too good, maybe.... they're right you know?



+1
17 Jul 2020, 22:43 PM
#14
avatar of borobadger

Posts: 184



It does have 0.75 moving accuracy but accuracy is not used when facing anti-tank guns or infantry. Also it has 7 speed which is indeed fast, but it's the same speed as units like the T-70 or the Stuart or the Cromwell.

It's a doctrinal unit, it's supposed to be good. Adjusting it further has to be done in a careful way. Nerfing its hitpoints to 400 so that it can get snared with one Faust would be a huge nerf. I would prefer baby steps and remove its oppressiveness (the fast call in and re-call in times) first before going after performance (which always has a good chance of ruining the unit).


It would be a big nerf but one that would be fully justified considering how much the unit is overperforming.
17 Jul 2020, 22:54 PM
#15
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

I am confused why it needs to have 0.75 moving accuracy? This and the build time should be easy changes. If possible it should also get a cooldown like heavy tanks. I would also make it slightly more expensive (10 fuel maybe?) and remove the HP buff at vet 3.
17 Jul 2020, 23:20 PM
#16
avatar of madin2

Posts: 203

No, its in a good spot, every nerf will make it useless again.
If you lower is healt to 400 it will get oneshootet by a teller and thats to much it's not a light tank.
If u increase cp, chromwell comes faster than the valantine.
If u lower its moving accuracy u cant use hit and run tactics and you have to in early lategame.
Smokescreen is also bugged and probably never get fixed.
18 Jul 2020, 00:21 AM
#17
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

I am confused why it needs to have 0.75 moving accuracy? This and the build time should be easy changes. If possible it should also get a cooldown like heavy tanks. I would also make it slightly more expensive (10 fuel maybe?) and remove the HP buff at vet 3.


In my experience Puma has a field day with Valentine. The .75 accuracy is the only thing that lets you chase after them without getting kited to death. Since accuracy doesn't help you against infantry I think it's fine given the high % that Valentine will bounce against mediums. I do agree that the HP buff at Vet 3 probably isn't needed.
18 Jul 2020, 00:26 AM
#18
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

Another allies OP thread xD. You really complaining about Valentine? Puma easily kills it, snares make it useless. The whole point of that tank is to hit and run and you want to nerf that xD. Let me guess, you lost a game now and got outplayed by a brit with valentine and now are complaining here.
18 Jul 2020, 00:29 AM
#19
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



It does have 0.75 moving accuracy but accuracy is not used when facing anti-tank guns or infantry. Also it has 7 speed which is indeed fast, but it's the same speed as units like the T-70 or the Stuart or the Cromwell.

It's a doctrinal unit, it's supposed to be good. Adjusting it further has to be done in a careful way. Nerfing its hitpoints to 400 so that it can get snared with one Faust would be a huge nerf. I would prefer baby steps and remove its oppressiveness (the fast call in and re-call in times) first before going after performance (which always has a good chance of ruining the unit).

Difference here is that it vets very fast with high AT/AI capability and its lower XP value compared to Cromwell and it gets the speed bonuses at vet 2 and not at vet 3.

The mobility at vet 2 speed 8.4/ accel 3.1/ rotation 45.6

18 Jul 2020, 02:20 AM
#20
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 379 | Subs: 1

Another allies OP thread xD. You really complaining about Valentine? Puma easily kills it, snares make it useless. The whole point of that tank is to hit and run and you want to nerf that xD. Let me guess, you lost a game now and got outplayed by a brit with valentine and now are complaining here.


xD
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