Panzergrenadiers with shreks

Why do they miss so much with their shreks shots?

It´s actually emberrasing when you have two squads with shreks and they fire at a aec and 3 shreks miss.

Whats the deal?

It may just be a bad streak of luck.
The Panzershreck accuracy is no worse than the other handheld AT launchers.
Since you mentioned the AEC, I'd reckon it's due to the fact you're shooting at a light vehicle with a smaller size. That does influence accuracy a lot, and if it is also on the move, it's going to increase the chance the shot will miss.

I found my PIATs are usually garbage bouncing Axis cat while my opponents PIATs always fuck up my Krupp Steel.

Shadowlynx was talking about new rules being applied when opening threads.
Keep that in mind, while taking a look at a little selection of quality Der Kuhlmann threads.


/www.coh2.org/topic/105927the-problem-with-raketen
www.coh2.org/topic/106002/why-are-grenadier-the-only
www.coh2.org/topic/105950/grens-changes
www.coh2.org/topic/105949/brits-changes
www.coh2.org/topic/105948/conscript-change
www.coh2.org/topic/105929/the-new-soviet-commander
www.coh2.org/topic/105313/isn-t-maxim-aoe-suppression
www.coh2.org/topic/104757/new-brit-commander-mobile-regiment
www.coh2.org/topic/103823/guards

and my personal favourite:

www.coh2.org/topic/105794/after-playing-ostheer-in-2v2-all-day



Panzershrek Pgrens are the best hand held at in the game.
missing one or two shots is being equalized by suddenly hitting max range homing missiles.
can you the next time atleast provide a clip to support your.. opinion or stop voicing it at?

It may just be a bad streak of luck.
The Panzershreck accuracy is no worse than the other handheld AT launchers.
Since you mentioned the AEC, I'd reckon it's due to the fact you're shooting at a light vehicle with a smaller size. That does influence accuracy a lot, and if it is also on the move, it's going to increase the chance the shot will miss.

this is not true. i have not the correct values...but for example zooks have better far accu. and piats even have a homing missle aiming

this is not true. i have not the correct values...but for example zooks have better far accu. and piats even have a homing missle aiming

I am aware that the Piats have some changing to help the fact it can't hit most things that are moving.
Will need someone to confirm it since the newest stat graph I have at hand doesn't cover AT weapons.

I am aware that the Piats have some changing to help the fact it can't hit most things that are moving.
Will need someone to confirm it since the newest stat graph I have at hand doesn't cover AT weapons.

You said: "The Panzershreck accuracy is no worse than the other handheld AT launchers. "

and i only mentioned this is not true. schrecks have the worst mid and far accu ingame.

You said: "The Panzershreck accuracy is no worse than the other handheld AT launchers. "

and i only mentioned this is not true. schrecks have the worst mid and far accu ingame.

Yes. Uh...was there a problem with that?
I was just leaving that comment with hopes that someone more familiar with the hard stats might be able to confirm it for me so I can keep that in mind.

Why do they miss so much with their shreks shots?

It´s actually emberrasing when you have two squads with shreks and they fire at a aec and 3 shreks miss.

Whats the deal?

1) To prevent shreck blobs being effective in team games, allied handheld AT got less damage and much less penetration, so they not only do not have alpha strike potential, they can and do actually bounce frequently
2) To not alpha strike lights and meds

From your example, seems like it is working exactly as intended.

The amount they miss seems exaggerated, because they just don't shoot that often compared to zooks.

The trick is to wait upgrading Schrecks until the squad to carry them has some veterancy, Panzergrenadiers get +40% accuracy total at vet 2. Also don't expect to kill lights with it, but see it as an anti-medium tool. Mediums are easier to hit and have more difficulty kiting, just make sure the Panzergrenadiers are supported so you're not forced to retreat early.

I am aware that the Piats have some changing to help the fact it can't hit most things that are moving.
Will need someone to confirm it since the newest stat graph I have at hand doesn't cover AT weapons.

piats should be a bit like that because of history (let's not make them better than shrecks or bazookas) and, more importantly, because of many snares/AT solutions ukf have (sniper, aec, a very fast moving AT gun plus stock heavy build-able stationary AT gun). Basically they got snares and their original design was to rely on sniper, aec, tulips with firefly and mines. Also on the fact that any unit can just grab AT weapons. Any buffs to piats should be connected with nerfing those other AT options left after original game design imo.

piats should be a bit like that because of history (let's not make them better than shrecks or bazookas) and, more importantly, because of many snares/AT solutions ukf have (sniper, aec, a very fast moving AT gun plus stock heavy build-able stationary AT gun). Basically they got snares and their original design was to rely on sniper, aec, tulips with firefly and mines. Also on the fact that any unit can just grab AT weapons. Any buffs to piats should be connected with nerfing those other AT options left after original game design imo.

I like the way you try to use history as an argument to keep allied stuff weak, but ignore the part where axis had unsustainable army.

Or the way you list all UKF gimmicks they relied on in the past, while conveniently ignoring the fact they are all completely impotent nowadays to the point where faction could not even function properly anymore without getting actual AT nade.

No one is asking to buff piats here, they are fine as they are and so are shrecks.
And piats still are used extremely rarely, because they are pointless in most situations.

It may just be a bad streak of luck.
The Panzershreck accuracy is no worse than the other handheld AT launchers.
Since you mentioned the AEC, I'd reckon it's due to the fact you're shooting at a light vehicle with a smaller size. That does influence accuracy a lot, and if it is also on the move, it's going to increase the chance the shot will miss.

Yes. Uh...was there a problem with that?
I was just leaving that comment with hopes that someone more familiar with the hard stats might be able to confirm it for me so I can keep that in mind.

The problem with that is that you posting something as fact although you are uncertain if it is actually true in the hopes that someone will correct it.

My suggestion would be to either post in way that demonstrate that you are uncertain or to first check stat and then post...

As pointed out shcrek does have inferior accuracy at long ranges to bazookas and a target moving make no difference in scoring a"natural" hit (it can effect collision hits thou).

Let all try to keep misinformation to the minimum.

post

Panzergrens with shrecks do suffer form accuracy far range not only because they miss. It is also because they are four men squad and very often have only one chance to shoot and they have to retreat if a player doesn't want to lose them to a t70, for example, let alone sth heavier. It wouldn't be a problem if shrecks were equipped on a cheaper squad. Sander suggested making them deal less damage but be more accurate far range - makes sens as range might help pzgren to be less likely to get wiped as they won't need to close distance that much. JibberJabber suggests, if I remember correctly, that a better idea might be to make them reload faster. I think both ideas suggest that there is a bit of a problem with an expensive upgrade on an expensive and fragile squad. I don't know whose idea is better tbh (Jibber arguments with the fact that accuracy rises with vet and that what Sander suggested might be unintentional nerf - I think he might be right here).

Thanks everyone

Panzergrens with shrecks do suffer form accuracy far range not only because they miss. It is also because they are four men squad and very often have only one chance to shoot and they have to retreat if a player doesn't want to lose them to a t70, for example, let alone sth heavier. It wouldn't be a problem if shrecks were equipped on a cheaper squad. Sander suggested making them deal less damage but be more accurate far range - makes sens as range might help pzgren to be less likely to get wiped as they won't need to close distance that much. JibberJabber suggests, if I remember correctly, that a better idea might be to make them reload faster. I think both ideas suggest that there is a bit of a problem with an expensive upgrade on an expensive and fragile squad. I don't know whose idea is better tbh (Jibber arguments with the fact that accuracy rises with vet and that what Sander suggested might be unintentional nerf - I think he might be right here).

How can ideas suggest there is a problem with a unit or upgrade?
I think the main issue is that if you give shrecks to pgrens you loose a lot of offensive ai punch.

While it is true pgrens shrecks usualy only get off a single shot mainly cuz of the justified long reload, there are lots of benifits that outweigh this.
Realy fast aim time meaning the first shot is fired really fast/instantly, its pen and damage is high if not the highest of all handheld at. The vet bonus near vehicles still applies. They dont loose their bundle nades, wich means they still are a big threat in ai esp to team weapons.

If the shreck dps is increased via accuracy or reload the damage needs to come down. We have proof that this works with ce's and cons.

But imo shrecks are fine. The pen every stock vehicle with ease, their damage is higher, ost already has plenty strong at options.

And if a t70 wipes pgrens on retreat constantly the pgrens went in solo and where not supported. By the time the t70 comes out there is no excuse not having any other at out other then shrecked pgrens.

post

Everything U wrote is true and I totally agree.

The "problem" is not that great. Generally, looking at tourneys (1v1/2v2) and analyzing matches one thing can be said for certain. It is easier to play as allies than axis. The difference is nowhere near what it used to be (thanks to the balance team - great bunch of people still making sure that the game experience of many players is better than in the past).

Pzgrens with shrecks are just one tiny example of small "problems" that add up with other small "problems" creating small but significant imbalance. The key is simply that the better penetration and dmg don't offset slower reload, worse far range accuracy, more manpower that has to be invested in the squad that holds pzshreck, more mp to reinforce, and the fact that the have less hp than larger squads. One also needs to add the fact that this is the only stock squad that can wield hand held at on the ost side. Allies can equip hand held at on many other squads and don't need to sacrifice more expensive squads. If they do sacrifice them, their at performance is boosted by the relatively new "elite" bazooka performance. The idea is probably to just adjust pzrshreck performance a little bit, so that the result of a relatively big resource investment into a shrecked elite squad is more predictable/reliable. We're probably talking of small differcences. Just look into sander vs jibberjabberjobber discussion in the thread on Sander's personal balance changes.

OP is right - for an elite and glass cannon squad they seem to miss too much. I'd suggest a blend of both solutions. Make them be more accurate from the start with less damage and instead of receiving better accuracy with vet, they should deal more damage with vet instead, so that at vet 3 their damage output is similar to what it is now.