5man grens OP?

Jump back to quoted post11 Jun 2020, 22:38 PMDerKuhlmann

Once rocket artillery starts to roll out, 5 man grens the only viable ostheer infantry.

That´s it.

You need 5 man grens, simply so they don´t die in a rocket artillery barrage.

Jump back to quoted post11 Jun 2020, 16:41 PMAngrade (Ægion)

Then ambush camouflage would do the same thing for pgrens, probably better with their better range.

As I said, Pioneers need a damage buff, thus lack of identity. Royal engineers have a better target size and have a non-doctrinal size increase.

Bundle grenades would, again Pgrens do the same job but better.

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2020, 00:43 AMthedarkarmadillo

Do storm troopers have sprint? (it's been a while since I used that commander) If not could that be an avenue to look into?

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2020, 00:27 AMSerrith

Ambush camo does NOT do the same thing for pgrens, because the camouflage characteristics are different.

If stormtroopers lack identity because of overlap pioneers, but pioneers lack identity because of lack of damage, then how can stormtroopers identity be taken by pioneers who have no identity due to lack of damage?

If your goal is displacement then they will have the same effectivity, except that bundled grenades do not deny buildings....

Jump back to quoted post11 Jun 2020, 22:38 PMDerKuhlmann

Once rocket artillery starts to roll out, 5 man grens the only viable ostheer infantry.

That´s it.

You need 5 man grens, simply so they don´t die in a rocket artillery barrage.

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2020, 01:06 AMAngrade (Ægion)

If reference when you said in wait in camouflage yes it is the same.

I said pioneers need a buff. This would cause overlap.

Bundle grenades are great against buildings, what are you talking about?

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2020, 01:00 AMAngrade (Ægion)

Only for Encirclement

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2020, 05:06 AMthedarkarmadillo

Thoughts on making it a native ability?

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2020, 04:21 AMborobadger

Would be interested to know the exact stats of the upgrade. They are really strong at present.

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2020, 03:36 AMSerrith

Actually an ambush is going to be stronger, the greater the dps you can level on the enemy before they retreat. For this reason, the stormtroopers are better at it, which isnt to say pgrens are bad at doing it but you want to front load your dps during an ambush, not trade fire at medium range.

So what you are saying is that currently since pios are underperforming for cost, there is no overlap but if pios were more powerful there would be?
I have already strongly advocated for pios to be cheaper, which would make the more cost efficient. This will also prevent your supposed overlap.

Grenades are meh against buildings because the unit inside can pop out and back in. This is a very basic micro trick. It does not work against incendiary grenades or molotov because they deal damage over time.

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2020, 13:01 PMAngrade (Ægion)

+1 Man
UI Icon
-10% received accuracy
Free med kits. (requires vet 1)

It offers more mobile dps compared to the LMG upgrade plus a large amount of durability, so moving to cover to cover is much more effective than just to A move everywhere. They do not gain as much as long range damage, but the Increase durability really pans out. They are still inferior to double bar riflemen in 1 on 1 though.

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2020, 13:22 PMAngrade (Ægion)

Wiping a squad before they retreat is not a good thing. That is why many AoE systems are designed not kill everyone, just wound the rest. Bad positioning and clums usually cause the squad wipes.

Pioneers should not be unreasonably held back. This is just creating a problem to be "fixed" later. Pioneers need a damage buff as long as there is no T0 Grens.

Except incendiary grenades are building specific. One can hope out and hope back in and still avoid most-all damage because it still only effect models in its radius. Many two store building are tall enough where it second story units are not damage by the pool.