Mortar autofire/barrage change?
7 Jun 2020, 23:26 PM
#1
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Can we make mortars more accurate with barrage or make autofire less accurate or change both to a smaller degree? It's really dumb how players who micro mortars with barrages are rewarded with less accurate shells than their autofire counterparts. It makes it better to not micro the mortar at all and just let it AFK and get damage in.
8 Jun 2020, 00:03 AM
#2
Posts: 320
+1, barrage should actually be able to hit machineguns/infantry in cover reliably.
8 Jun 2020, 01:40 AM
#3
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
but mortars are already more accurate in barrage mode across the board (maybe except the mortar pit), especially with the vet3 scatter reduction.
they all do also fire slower with their auto attack already, athough this could probably be amplified a bit more to give the barrage a greater edge over the autoattack
they all do also fire slower with their auto attack already, athough this could probably be amplified a bit more to give the barrage a greater edge over the autoattack
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8 Jun 2020, 02:04 AM
#4
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
but mortars are already more accurate in barrage mode across the board (maybe except the mortar pit), especially with the vet3 scatter reduction.
they all do also fire slower with their auto attack already, athough this could probably be amplified a bit more to give the barrage a greater edge over the autoattack
I was quite surprised when I checked the editor and found that the barrage was usually just as accurate if not slightly more accurate in very few values. However here's where I think the issue occurs when using barrages vs autofire. Autofire only works when you either give an attack ground command, or when the mortar is doing its own work. When its doing its own work the mortar requires visibility of a target and therefore the FoW debuff doesn't apply, which is why autofire is significantly more accurate than when you're barraging an MG in the FoW.
So that being the case, I'm not sure removing the FoW debuff would be a good idea, however I think maybe a slight reduction in firerate in barrage inexchange for a lighter penalty from the FoW would be a start. The penalty is x1.25 scatter so maybe lowering it to x1.15 would be a start.
8 Jun 2020, 02:04 AM
#5
Posts: 2358
Why not reducing autofire rate of fire, just to add more risk or force player to stay longer to get "accurate" shots
8 Jun 2020, 02:53 AM
#6
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
I was quite surprised when I checked the editor and found that the barrage was usually just as accurate if not slightly more accurate in very few values. However here's where I think the issue occurs when using barrages vs autofire. Autofire only works when you either give an attack ground command, or when the mortar is doing its own work. When its doing its own work the mortar requires visibility of a target and therefore the FoW debuff doesn't apply, which is why autofire is significantly more accurate than when you're barraging an MG in the FoW.
So that being the case, I'm not sure removing the FoW debuff would be a good idea, however I think maybe a slight reduction in firerate in barrage inexchange for a lighter penalty from the FoW would be a start. The penalty is x1.25 scatter so maybe lowering it to x1.15 would be a start.
that's a very good point actually and i guess many newer players do not even realize there is something like a FoW penalty.
tuning this modifier would be an interesting alternative to just tinkering with raw scatter or rof values alone. plus, there are a few examples where this has already been done to good effect, e.g. the isu152 which has double the usual FoW penalty (2.5), so reduced FoW scatter for mortar barrages seems worthwhile to test at least.
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8 Jun 2020, 02:53 AM
#7
Posts: 773
I'd rather their be no auto fire at all and only barrage, placing a mortar/leig/pit etc 'safely' in a contested area and having it fire whilst you micro elsewhere is too cheesy for me.
If you want to use your indirect, use it.
If you want to use your indirect, use it.
8 Jun 2020, 03:12 AM
#8
Posts: 833
I agree with increasing lethality but nerfing autofire, this should have been done a long time ago.
Currently you can sit an MG team under mortar barrage and often not even need to replace because the rounds will miss most of the time. You're lucky if you kill half a MG crew.
Previous issue was players going double mortar and leaving them behind a house somewhere to rack up zero micro autofire kills. So surely the fix should have been to nerf autofire?
I don't see why barrage got hit by nerfs too.
Currently you can sit an MG team under mortar barrage and often not even need to replace because the rounds will miss most of the time. You're lucky if you kill half a MG crew.
Previous issue was players going double mortar and leaving them behind a house somewhere to rack up zero micro autofire kills. So surely the fix should have been to nerf autofire?
I don't see why barrage got hit by nerfs too.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
8 Jun 2020, 06:12 AM
#9
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I was quite surprised when I checked the editor and found that the barrage was usually just as accurate if not slightly more accurate in very few values.
Keep in mind that barrages get significantly better reload. The GrW 34 for example has roughly 10,6s autofire reload and 5,5s barrage reload.
8 Jun 2020, 09:07 AM
#10
Posts: 3118 | Subs: 2
I don't think reducing FOV penalty would be a good approach, because it devalues recon. You're still firing at something you can't see, and the barrages are usually strong enough to dislodge the targeted unit anyway.
If anything, I'd say trade a nerf in autofire reload for a buff in barrage recharge.
If anything, I'd say trade a nerf in autofire reload for a buff in barrage recharge.
8 Jun 2020, 10:41 AM
#11
Posts: 486
Just cut scatter on barrage. If autofire needs work, take care of that seperately. Do NOT increase the AOE damage, that will make mortars feel like Pack Howis. Shrink landing zone and that will force pack up and leaving.
8 Jun 2020, 12:51 PM
#12
Posts: 600
first of all mortar shells should do proper damage to friendly units. seen it countless times: mortar pits shelling into close combat, wiping enemies and just ignoring friendlies
8 Jun 2020, 13:05 PM
#13
Posts: 1351
first of all mortar shells should do proper damage to friendly units
Not only mortar shells - all artillery/grenades should do the same.
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8 Jun 2020, 13:39 PM
#14
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I'd rather their be no auto fire at all and only barrage, placing a mortar/leig/pit etc 'safely' in a contested area and having it fire whilst you micro elsewhere is too cheesy for me.
If you want to use your indirect, use it.
There is already the safety vs accuracy dynamic. A mortar firing safely from max range isn't worth it as the accuracy of indirect units is rather bad at long ranges. If you want to get value out of a mortar, you already have to micro it to stick closely behind your units and manually target / barrage the units you need to hit.
8 Jun 2020, 15:48 PM
#15
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
first of all mortar shells should do proper damage to friendly units. seen it countless times: mortar pits shelling into close combat, wiping enemies and just ignoring friendlies
Not only mortar shells - all artillery/grenades should do the same.
this would make a lot of sense from a realism perspective, but i'm afraid it would open the door to a lot more and easier teamkilling and related shenanigans... not sure this would be worth the price for a bit more immersion
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8 Jun 2020, 15:58 PM
#16
Posts: 600
teamkilling is a reportable offense which is punished accordingly. this cannot stand in the way of balancing (should this be a balancing issue)
8 Jun 2020, 16:02 PM
#17
Posts: 1351
this would make a lot of sense from a realism perspective, but i'm afraid it would open the door to a lot more and easier teamkilling and related shenanigans... not sure this would be worth the price for a bit more immersion
I agree to some extend with the fact that some risks are involved when introducing it. But the current damage modifier is just too generous for the owner of the ability. I feel that changing it a bit towards more damage for the friendly unit staying inside the barrage/mortar/grenade aoe would be fine. Would introduce some more intended imo game dynamics.
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8 Jun 2020, 17:17 PM
#18
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
teamkilling is a reportable offense which is punished accordingly. this cannot stand in the way of balancing (should this be a balancing issue)
I assume he means accidental teamkilling caused by imperfect team coordination. It would be especially bad in big team games, where indirect is much more abundant. You'd have to worry about indirect from both your teammates and enemies.
8 Jun 2020, 17:58 PM
#19
Posts: 600
yes, whats the problem?
so you actually have to think about what youre doing instead of mindlessly barraging the entire map.. oh no
so you actually have to think about what youre doing instead of mindlessly barraging the entire map.. oh no
8 Jun 2020, 18:26 PM
#20
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
yes, whats the problem?
so you actually have to think about what youre doing instead of mindlessly barraging the entire map.. oh no
yeah, good luck coordinating every single mortar attack with up to three (random) teammates.
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