KT thread

give it a crew in the form of pzgrens from ost in black uniforms wth crit repairs and smoke grenades

Edit: and the ability to push the king forwards with the effect of "step on it" and another ability to quickly push the turret so that it can spin around much faster (one crew member would be delegated to do this (hull mg wouldn't be working then).

If you did that with KT, it would break down in seconds. It's a 69 (hehe) ton motherf***** with a measly 690 HP powering it. Many years ago I saw a documentary about the tank wars of WW2 (week before it was WW1). Most people (Sherman veterans) said that the KT was non-penetrable and that most of them were lost due to breaking down (like Panther, an extremely unreliable tank). The current stats on the tank in the game reflect that. You can't have that much armour and firepower and HP and expect to do Tokyo drifts with it. No matter if the tank lost main gunner and all other gunners on active ability effect, it's just preposterous since it would allow KT to do what Panthers can do due to their high HP pool. Get the F out of combat safely. A lot of people are treating KT as a jack of all trades, when it's not. It's a jack of "I'm a fat fu**, come at me brah, but not when I'm alone ... brah" trades.

didint read any replies. i think its armour or gun should be improved slightly. if armour id say up to 400, if armour id like to see a moving accuracy buff to it can pressure a bit better. its not an awful tank by any measure, but for how easily its countered i find it slightly lacking.

Basically this.

KT is fine. Wouldn't mind HEARING people ideas on buffs that doesn't relate to raw offensive or defensive performance.

Maybe a 1-2 pop cap reduction, or allowing OKW to build 1 concrete repair bunker so it isn't out of the fight as much.

KT is such a meme. It has no use in 1v1 and in teamgames it is hard countered by the Allied TD meta. There's no way of making it useful, without making it game breaking.

The change would really have to start with introducing a better tier system to the game where you actually would have to go through every vehicle tier from light, medium, mmedium+, heavy to heavy+ in order to stay relevant. People in team games can just hop to the end game units like panther and Jackson so quickly that it renders stuff like KT useless.

This.

From my experience, anyone building a KT in larger games is usually inexperienced - it's just not a good unit. It comes so late that the opponents will have tons of AT on the field (or have effectively lost already), and while its AT and AI power is good, it's just too slow to actually position it well or escape if its ambushed... or simply rushed.

One of the simplest changes I would support is probably a speed/acceleration increase. Not by much; it shouldn't be as fast as a Tiger, but it should be a little bit faster than it is now.

Currently it has 3.8 speed and 1.4 accel - I would increase that to around 4.5 speed and 1.8 accel. That would give it the same acceleration as a normal Tiger, and put its new speed exactly between its current speed and a normal tiger. It would definitely still be a slow vehicle, but I think those two small buffs would allow it to be a bit usable, in terms of positioning and reaction.


As for 1v1; yea, it's never going to be viable. It's too slow, too expensive and takes up too much pop to ever be a reasonable choice against a Panther+P4 combo, or really anything else. However, buffing it so that it becomes a viable choice would result in it being an "I Win" button in team games due to the inflated resource incomes.

It still feels like some kt shots go way the fuck off target, like the gunner sneezed when he pulled the trigger

Vet 0 Spearhead would probably be about as much as I'd do for the unit. Maybe a slight turret rotation and mobility increase at vet 1.

vote no.
Okw have good tanks already.

If you did that with KT, it would break down in seconds. It's a 69 (hehe) ton motherf***** with a measly 690 HP powering it. Many years ago I saw a documentary about the tank wars of WW2 (week before it was WW1). Most people (Sherman veterans) said that the KT was non-penetrable and that most of them were lost due to breaking down (like Panther, an extremely unreliable tank). The current stats on the tank in the game reflect that. You can't have that much armour and firepower and HP and expect to do Tokyo drifts with it. No matter if the tank lost main gunner and all other gunners on active ability effect, it's just preposterous since it would allow KT to do what Panthers can do due to their high HP pool. Get the F out of combat safely. A lot of people are treating KT as a jack of all trades, when it's not. It's a jack of "I'm a fat fu**, come at me brah, but not when I'm alone ... brah" trades.

My comment was a joke of course (maybe not clear enough as I thought the crew might actually leave the vehicle and literally push the king or its gun )

But seriously...

KT is very difficult to balance as if it gets too good it will wipe the whole armies. Because it is stock it can be combined with all other units including elite doctrine tied infantry, offmaps, etc.

In its current form it is a bit of a problem from the maintenance perspective (historically accurate ). OKW sturmpios are the only unit that can repair it unless you want to come back to base to use truck repairs (might be extremely difficult with crit engine). Sturmpios are ridiculously expensive (300manpower - almost sherman level) if you want to treat them only as a repair unit, and you have to lategame. (of course there is a chance you haven't lost them and they vetted nicely and it is not so bad then). If you lose them and have to buy another sturpio, or even two, to speed up repairs you will lose manpower war and king tiger won't make up for it. While repairing sturmpios are very voulnerable and losing models is very costly too. Basically King Tiger only amplifies the problem that OKW has when they need to repair tanks on the frontline. Anyway, I might be repeating myself form other threads, but the reality is imo that if you managed to make it possible to repair king tiger more efficiently (with a cheaper unit) KT itself might have sufficiently more battlefield presence to make it worth its cost despite being ridiculously slow. I would postulate making infrared halftrack get an upgrade for around 60 munitions to make it spam repair pios like a repair bunker. The halftrack is fragile and it could be a nice risk-reward mechanism. Such upgrade might mean that the manpower price of the halftrack itself should go up, though (I don't remember how much it costs now). Alternative apprach would be to simply build another halftrack that could uprade with repair engies (so that the OKW player will have to pay, say 100-200 manpower to get this repair option before investing munitions).

From a teamgame perspective, I think the KT is okay. Very situational, and I don't believe it needs any tinkering. From my experience the KT is very good bait to get the allied tanks to dive. Mines and raks finish them of and if the KT survives, you can turn the offensive. At Top 200 4v4's allies love to overproduce TD's, giving them not enough indirect fire to deal with raks.

From a teamgame perspective, I think the KT is okay. Very situational, and I don't believe it needs any tinkering. From my experience the KT is very good bait to get the allied tanks to dive. Mines and raks finish them of and if the KT survives, you can turn the offensive. At Top 200 4v4's allies love to overproduce TD's, giving them not enough indirect fire to deal with raks.

nope. Its really common these days to spam indirect fire option as allie teamplayers.

you will mostly 2-4 katjuschas/ caliope
2-5 arty (priest/sexton/etc)

and many many offmap ability

a premade team will every time choose commanders which have enough indirect fire.

nope. Its really common these days to spam indirect fire option as allie teamplayers.

you will mostly 2-4 katjuschas/ caliope
2-5 arty (priest/sexton/etc)

and many many offmap ability

a premade team will every time choose commanders which have enough indirect fire.

Usually when I see an imbalance in the types of units, it is this. It's extremely annoying, as the game often goes about 30-40 minutes until the Axis team gets a critical mass of tanks. Then they roll all the way to your base. While they're busy pushing to your base, your teammate is busy trying to hid all their Sextons, Priest, Katy's.

I disagree with all of the claims that it is a meme unit and nobody in the top 200 uses it. I don't see it often on maps like Red Ball but it gets used in city maps, where it is already really difficult to kill.

I would support a small speed and acceleration buff. Maybe also a bit of armor to deflect more shots.

I would support a small speed and acceleration buff. Maybe also a bit of armor to deflect more shots.

KT does not need more armor. Vet allied Tds need less penetration.

I play 2v2 and imo they've removed all the maps a KT was good on. Ettelbruck station, dusseldorf, trois points were all solid KT maps. They were all urban so much harder to counter KT with TDs

I don't know about 3v3 and 4v4 but in 1v1 you likely can only afford it if you're already kicking ass. Thats my general feeling anyway

Maybe a 1-2 pop cap reduction, or allowing OKW to build 1 concrete repair bunker so it isn't out of the fight as much.

So you want it Churchill popcap?

Lol

From a teamgame perspective, I think the KT is okay. Very situational, and I don't believe it needs any tinkering. From my experience the KT is very good bait to get the allied tanks to dive. Mines and raks finish them of and if the KT survives, you can turn the offensive. At Top 200 4v4's allies love to overproduce TD's, giving them not enough indirect fire to deal with raks.

With this perspective, a frontal armor buff for KT makes perfect sense.
To make jacksons (mostly) and other TD to flank and dive.
KT is almost like a panther, but with better AI and HP and worse mobility. Both are used a lot like each other, to set up a clear limit for allied mediums dives and also put some serious drawback on allied TD fron engaging recklessly.

KT frontal armor buff might be also used unitentionally to push through a frontline, therefore i suggested to add a stock hull down for it. Maybe Spios should do it to put some extra difficulty in it. A hull down that will only increase frontal armor would be the best (something like a tank trench)

I also agree that KT popcap is too high, because its a very durable unit but also its costs dont make up for a reliable performance to push through when allied TD are so efficient kiting it and penning it frontally.
No one wants to kamikaze a KT but having one on the field constrains a lot the popcap

As it stands, I've thrown this unit into the dustbin permanently as it becomes a deathtrap on treads in the current Allied TD meta. I doubt even an armor increase of 375-> 400 would be enough to save it as that turns 58.7% -> 55% pen chance vs a stock Jackson and 48%-> 45% for a stock ZiS.

It is just too damn slow and short of acting as a meatshield for a coordinated team with jagd spam, just asking to be destroyed.

So you want it Churchill popcap?

Lol

Isn't a KT something like 26? A Churchill is 18 or 19. If the difference between those numbers is only 1-2 then LOL as much as you want.