What is Heztzer supposed to be so much better at that one would go for hezter over P4? Or even luchs? It's just KV8 with critical weaknesses.
-Not enough HP pool to frontally attack AT line
-No turret so can't run circles around AT like KV8
-only AI
Compared to P4:
-hetzer has less range so has to be microed more in order not to get snared
-No AT capability
-no rotating turret
Honestly what is this thing better at than luchs or P4?
- "you can like, force MGs off buildings and do damage against infantry, that you totally could no do with any other vehicle"
If you really want to make hetzer a competitive non-meme option you've got to implement just ONE of these changes:
-available with mechanized instead of schwer
-50% HP buff
-Serious dps buff
[Feuersturm] MP40 and Hetzer
20 May 2020, 16:07 PM
#61
Posts: 177
20 May 2020, 16:16 PM
#62
Posts: 833
What is Heztzer supposed to be so much better at that one would go for hezter over P4? Or even luchs? It's just KV8 with critical weaknesses.
-Not enough HP pool to frontally attack AT line
-No turret so can't run circles around AT like KV8
-only AI
Compared to P4:
-hetzer has less range so has to be microed more in order not to get snared
-No AT capability
-no rotating turret
Honestly what is this thing better at than luchs or P4?
- "you can like, force MGs off buildings and do damage against infantry, that you totally could no do with any other vehicle"
If you really want to make hetzer a competitive non-meme option you've got to implement just ONE of these changes:
-available with mechanized instead of schwer
-50% HP buff
-Serious dps buff
Hetzer can be rushed as it comes before flak truck, it's also cheaper. Armor allows you to counter Bofors where a luch can't.
It fits in well with mech truck builds when you already have a puma and luch, I've seen some pros use this in a few games. Seen a lot of firesturm especially to punish UKF that have to build green cover everywhere, hetzer fits here well.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
20 May 2020, 16:22 PM
#63
Posts: 282
MP40 volks are currently superior to ass Tommies
Cheaper popcap, Faust, self healing vet and smoke at basically the same combat power
This would be a nerf to OKW... So sure.
Can someone run a test?
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20 May 2020, 16:29 PM
#64
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
MP40 volks are currently superior to ass Tommies
Not really. They come later and have a teach cost.
Cheaper popcap, Faust, self healing vet and smoke at basically the same combat power
This would be a nerf to OKW... So sure.
Not really since by the time one get MP-40 volks one can have Ass IS with Thomson.
20 May 2020, 16:35 PM
#65
Posts: 177
Hetzer can be rushed as it comes before flak truck, it's also cheaper. Armor allows you to counter Bofors where a luch can't.
It fits in well with mech truck builds when you already have a puma and luch, I've seen some pros use this in a few games. Seen a lot of firesturm especially to punish UKF that have to build green cover everywhere, hetzer fits here well.
So you are basically saying that I should have this commander in my roster in case my UKF opponent goes bofors and I can't wait two more minutes to get p4? The probability of this situation happening is negligible. Also if you can bully green cover spamming UKF with hetzer it means you can bully him with luchs.
20 May 2020, 16:41 PM
#66
Posts: 2358
Make Hetzer come earlier or make it a late game flamer unit with better armor/Hp/Target size. Currently i see it as a medium with medium-late game timing. Worthless the effort because there is a lot of allied mediums that shut it off even before being deployed and a couple ATGs can bully it easily, too easily.
20 May 2020, 17:47 PM
#67
Posts: 785
Could bring Hetzer HP to 560 (Stug III/M10 Wolverine HP) and possibly lower the fuel cost some from 100(I think it is?) to high-end light tank levels, then put it in the primary HQ and require 2 trucks set up.
20 May 2020, 18:09 PM
#68
Posts: 282
I think keep the same stat but making is a Call-in unit with 5 or 6 CP might help, a bit like Stug-E
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20 May 2020, 19:51 PM
#69
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
thets no risk when you go kv8 kappa
At rank 2000+ where no one builds mines, uses fausts or ATGs or even med tanks, because they should be on field when KV-8 arrives?
Flame hetzer is a solid unit, it melts infantry and ATGs just fine, if you are afraid to lose it to vehicles, then maaaaaaaybe you should FUCKING PROTECT IT? OKW have T0 ATG for a reason you know?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
20 May 2020, 22:30 PM
#70
Posts: 5279
I don't mind the hetz but I can see why people don't like it- to get the best out of it you will need to support it, which is markedly different than the other flame vehicles (wasp/FHT come soon enough they can eek by without it, kv-8/croc comes late enough it can have durability) but the hetz is in a n odd timing where AT is around but not so long that it should bounce shells.... However it's very commander grants the grey horde with smoke nades (assuming the okw player might decide to NOT pick the absolutely easy "improve DPS at all ranges" upgrade and instead chose to lower their long range DPS and trade their "none of the drawbacks of a molotov" molotov for a stick grenade to get access to smoke) smoke and hetz is great but I mean... You get flame rounds for the leig and throwers for sturms so... It's kinda overkill because it hits too soon or is too squishy. Idk
#stalinwept
20 May 2020, 23:00 PM
#71
Posts: 731
I hope IRstg rework be call in unit too
20 May 2020, 23:02 PM
#72
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 May 2020, 20:27 PM
#73
Posts: 607
Well since mp40 volks are hard countered by good mg play, in theory the Hetzer is there in turn to counter support weapons play. The problem is that 60range AT guns and enemy tanks can abuse it easily. If you add 5 more range it can do its job more safely, which helps it survive and be more viable.
That would put its range at 40, meaning it would be the same as a panzer 4.
That's... a little silly, IMO.
22 May 2020, 04:04 AM
#74
Posts: 682
Hetzer can be rushed as it comes before flak truck, it's also cheaper.
???
/s
22 May 2020, 07:45 AM
#75
Posts: 783
MP40s are fine. If you run up against conscript or infantry section heavy builds, MP40 volks will serve you well.
The hetzer is not good. Its tech and cost means it's going to hit the field very slightly earlier then standard tank timing but its lack of versatility makes it unsuitable for a first medium. It might be more durable then the ostwind or centaur, but both of them have much larger field impact when they arrive, and that's only discussing AI specialist mediums. Most times people will opt for a generalist medium as their first tank and for good reason.
Personally I'd rather its durability and damage be nerfed, its cost reduced, then put into either tier 1 or 2. Perhaps 1 to make it easier to access the leig for the incendiary rounds.
The hetzer is not good. Its tech and cost means it's going to hit the field very slightly earlier then standard tank timing but its lack of versatility makes it unsuitable for a first medium. It might be more durable then the ostwind or centaur, but both of them have much larger field impact when they arrive, and that's only discussing AI specialist mediums. Most times people will opt for a generalist medium as their first tank and for good reason.
Personally I'd rather its durability and damage be nerfed, its cost reduced, then put into either tier 1 or 2. Perhaps 1 to make it easier to access the leig for the incendiary rounds.
22 May 2020, 07:55 AM
#76
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
One of the few reasons to pick this doctrine is the Opel truck. The rest not so much. Assault package is solid as the rocket
Incendiary rounds for Leigs should not occupy a whole commander slot, the ability is just not worth it. Replace it with the Artillery Officer or the Incendiary bombing run from Luftwaffe.
Hetzer needs to come earlier and should not require the 2nd tech phase.
Incendiary rounds for Leigs should not occupy a whole commander slot, the ability is just not worth it. Replace it with the Artillery Officer or the Incendiary bombing run from Luftwaffe.
Hetzer needs to come earlier and should not require the 2nd tech phase.
22 May 2020, 11:57 AM
#77
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Hetzer would be OP at LV timing.
Perhaps nerfing it and putting it in BGHQ would be a good change. Less fuel cost but also less HP or less mobility?
Perhaps nerfing it and putting it in BGHQ would be a good change. Less fuel cost but also less HP or less mobility?
22 May 2020, 13:19 PM
#78
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
Hetzer would be OP at LV timing.
Perhaps nerfing it and putting it in BGHQ would be a good change. Less fuel cost but also less HP or less mobility?
I would support this, at least it's one option to make BGHQ more attractive.
22 May 2020, 16:22 PM
#79
Posts: 148
Hetzer would be OP at LV timing.
Perhaps nerfing it and putting it in BGHQ would be a good change. Less fuel cost but also less HP or less mobility?
hanother 251?
Kimbo is so cute, isn't he?
22 May 2020, 16:45 PM
#80
Posts: 682
~400hp, target size +2 fuel cost to 80 available from mechanized
/s
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