Now that sim cities are gone is there any reason why this ability still can delete 90pop cap worth of armies in seconds?
I know some top 2vs2 players will say it's not meta but it's really a plague in 4vs4 randoms when newbies don't know how to react. A lot of 4vs4 players are just ignorant of anything "not in their lane" so it leaves basically no counterplay in randoms. You also can't counter the arty like you can with skill planes etc.
Sure we all love watching Dane cream his pants every time someone clicks the button but it's getting pretty old now.
Possibly decrease lethality and drop the muni price a bit?
Close the pocket
17 May 2020, 19:56 PM
#1
Posts: 833
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
17 May 2020, 19:58 PM
#2
Posts: 3046 | Subs: 3
No.
17 May 2020, 20:28 PM
#3
Posts: 957
No.
I second this
He has to decap points first, which means you can see it comin and if you instantly order all your stuff back to base, you should be fine
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
17 May 2020, 20:29 PM
#4
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I second this
He has to decap points first, which means you can see it comin and if you instantly order all your stuff back to base, you should be fine
There is special stuka in that doctrine that can decap into FoW.
Or at least could last time I've used it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 May 2020, 20:35 PM
#5
Posts: 101
How often do you see this ability used to think it's an issue?
17 May 2020, 21:57 PM
#6
Posts: 3046 | Subs: 3
There is special stuka in that doctrine that can decap into FoW.
Or at least could last time I've used it.
yes but what maps have only 1 main cutoff? and also there is a fuel/ammo cache on the cutoff at that stage 8 out of 10 times, making the stuka useless.
Close the Pocket is considered as meme or toy by majority of the community and it doesnt work in 3 digit ranks or better. Smart players will always have an eye on the cutoff and protect it with a cache.. sometimes just from looking at enemy commanders in load screen alone
17 May 2020, 21:58 PM
#7
Posts: 5279
Fuck no. Close the pocket is a template of the type of abilities we NEED in the game. They they that isn't just "hahah I have Los, they vet on this unit is gone. Gosh I'm so good!" and more with actually fucking criteria that focuses on doing something and rewarding you for it. There's isn't another damn ability in the game that has more criteria. Build a single cache and it's useless. L2p ect ect but unironicly. This ability is a prime example of risk/reward
#stalinwept
17 May 2020, 22:25 PM
#8
Posts: 203
Close the pocket is fun/stupid for some incredibly delicious/annoying 4vs4 cheese, and not much else.
1. Get 3 friends and play 4vs4 as OST
2. Redball Express comes up
3. Everyone picks Breakthrough
4. Play as normal.
5. Everyone uses CTP at the same time.
6. Fireworks
7. Profit?
1. Get 3 friends and play 4vs4 as OST
2. Redball Express comes up
3. Everyone picks Breakthrough
4. Play as normal.
5. Everyone uses CTP at the same time.
6. Fireworks
7. Profit?
You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
17 May 2020, 23:00 PM
#9
Posts: 5279
Close the pocket is fun/stupid for some incredibly delicious/annoying 4vs4 cheese, and not much else.
1. Get 3 friends and play 4vs4 as OST
2. Redball Express comes up
3. Everyone picks Breakthrough
4. Play as normal.
5. Everyone uses CTP at the same time.
6. Fireworks
7. Profit?
Waste of resourese tbh. CTP is very strong. Imo the biggest problem is everyone wants to get the whole front inside it. Even zoning 1 strong point at a time is REALLY strong. Strong builfimg/ okw sws stronghold. Cut it off and bam.... It' can be applied in bite sized chunks. The whole tactical position of the game is gone and everything is applied at a strategic level now
#stalinwept
17 May 2020, 23:08 PM
#10
Posts: 1958
No.
LOL
Points scored for being succinct.
The only good thing about he doctrine is Close the Pocket. Due to that, I wouldn't nerf it.
Most maps require two points to be neutral to use the ability. One notable exception is Poltawa which has that and other faults.
18 May 2020, 00:10 AM
#11
Posts: 2160 | Subs: 2
As a 4v4 only player:
- Red Ball
- White Ball
- Road to Arnhem
- La Gleize
Have good CTP options. LaGleize is almost the easiest to pull of yet no one ever uses the ability on the map. All you need to do is drop on the cutoff outside the base(if no cache) then CTP.
Nordwind has strong cutoffs in the North. One could let the enemy have the North, then just push the cutoff. But by 12-14 CPs you have probably already lost the match.
I am torn on CTP. Its fun as hell to pull off. But I agree with the OPs point that it may be a bad experience for newer casual players. The first time it happened to me, I was really confused. If it wasnt for people in chat talking about it, I would have been a little annoyed. And since all the pros here proclaim its not used in high level games, why even have it? To punish noobs when you have a premade team?
- Red Ball
- White Ball
- Road to Arnhem
- La Gleize
Have good CTP options. LaGleize is almost the easiest to pull of yet no one ever uses the ability on the map. All you need to do is drop on the cutoff outside the base(if no cache) then CTP.
Nordwind has strong cutoffs in the North. One could let the enemy have the North, then just push the cutoff. But by 12-14 CPs you have probably already lost the match.
I am torn on CTP. Its fun as hell to pull off. But I agree with the OPs point that it may be a bad experience for newer casual players. The first time it happened to me, I was really confused. If it wasnt for people in chat talking about it, I would have been a little annoyed. And since all the pros here proclaim its not used in high level games, why even have it? To punish noobs when you have a premade team?
18 May 2020, 04:36 AM
#12
Posts: 833
No.
Why? I think if the doctrine was reworked into a theme of cutting supply lines with multiple abilities it would be much better than a "delete all enemy units" design we currently have.
You could replace CTP with a passive capture buff for all infantry. Then decrease the muni cost of the doctrinal decap abilities, maybe have the stuka destroy a sector point until it's repaired. Etc etc
This would make the doctrine viable in 1vs1 too.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
18 May 2020, 04:42 AM
#13
Posts: 833
Fuck no. Close the pocket is a template of the type of abilities we NEED in the game. They they that isn't just "hahah I have Los, they vet on this unit is gone. Gosh I'm so good!" and more with actually fucking criteria that focuses on doing something and rewarding you for it. There's isn't another damn ability in the game that has more criteria. Build a single cache and it's useless. L2p ect ect but unironicly. This ability is a prime example of risk/reward
The reward should never be strong enough to ruin a 4vs4 game by deleting every army
Obviously pro players and AT teams can counter it. But it ruins a lot of mid and newbie range 4vs4 random games. Commander needs a rework
How often do you see this ability used to think it's an issue?
At my level in mid tier 4vs4 (I'm not "pro") maybe one in every three times I play maps like redball. I've never really seen it do anything but frustrate players and ruin what are usually fun games until the CTP activation.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
18 May 2020, 09:06 AM
#14
Posts: 282
With all the requirement and gambling Close The Pocket require it has to give some reward.
To set up a Close the Pocket you have to neutral at least 2 points, which often mean destroy 2 caches. And how do you accomplish that? Assuming one Stormtroops can destroy and cap 1 point, how you destroy the second?
With the most favorable case (without caches built), you will have to spend 340 MP( Stormtroops)+80 mun (stuka)+ Close the Pocket (200 mun).
And taking this commander is also a huge gamble because you have nothing good except Close the Pocket. No big tank,call-in (Puma/Agren/Ostruppen/CP4),utility such as scope or smoke or Lefh.
Conclusion: Set up Close the Pocket require a lot of time and ressources and the reward must be good enough. It even has reliable counter contrary to some other ability (*cough* Anti-Tank overwatch *cough*).
To set up a Close the Pocket you have to neutral at least 2 points, which often mean destroy 2 caches. And how do you accomplish that? Assuming one Stormtroops can destroy and cap 1 point, how you destroy the second?
With the most favorable case (without caches built), you will have to spend 340 MP( Stormtroops)+80 mun (stuka)+ Close the Pocket (200 mun).
And taking this commander is also a huge gamble because you have nothing good except Close the Pocket. No big tank,call-in (Puma/Agren/Ostruppen/CP4),utility such as scope or smoke or Lefh.
Conclusion: Set up Close the Pocket require a lot of time and ressources and the reward must be good enough. It even has reliable counter contrary to some other ability (*cough* Anti-Tank overwatch *cough*).
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Playercard of [DGM] Cain Le Roi Du Pétrole |
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18 May 2020, 13:03 PM
#15
Posts: 5279
The reward should never be strong enough to ruin a 4vs4 game by deleting every army
Obviously pro players and AT teams can counter it. But it ruins a lot of mid and newbie range 4vs4 random games. Commander needs a rework
At my level in mid tier 4vs4 (I'm not "pro") maybe one in every three times I play maps like redball. I've never really seen it do anything but frustrate players and ruin what are usually fun games until the CTP activation.
If 4 players can't defend their cut off that's on them. I play team games, and the first thing many ayers do it cache the cut off. New players will learn very quickly
#stalinwept
18 May 2020, 13:42 PM
#16
Posts: 203
Waste of resourese tbh.
Thats why I said "fun cheese", anyway is it though? I'd say destroying 4 armies is worth it (most of the time it's a win button)
Imo the biggest problem is everyone wants to get the whole front inside it.
Why not? it's somewhat easy and quick to do. Redball only needs 2 points to cutoff the entire frontline, and there are 4 players, there's even a nice house right next to one of the cutoffs from with your storms can spawn.
You just have to get a little creative. Caches won't help much, they'll just delay things a bit
You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
18 May 2020, 13:47 PM
#17
Posts: 282
Thats why I said "fun cheese", anyway is it though? I'd say destroying 4 armies is worth it (most of the time it's a win button)
Why not? it's somewhat easy and quick to do. Redball only needs 2 points to cutoff the entire frontline, and there are 4 players, there's even a nice house right next to one of the cutoffs from with your storms can spawn.
You just have to get a little creative. Caches won't help much, they'll just delay things a bit
Then be even more creative and blow the house
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Playercard of [DGM] Cain Le Roi Du Pétrole |
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18 May 2020, 14:00 PM
#18
Posts: 203
Then be even more creative and blow the house
I know, been there, done that. I've been both the cheeser and the chesee, many times.
That of course only slows things down, doesn't stop them. ;0
You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
18 May 2020, 14:23 PM
#19
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The ability can be countered by:
Cashes
recaping cut off
Moving troops since the artillery trucks target rather slowly
Cashes
recaping cut off
Moving troops since the artillery trucks target rather slowly
18 May 2020, 14:41 PM
#20
Posts: 5279
Thats why I said "fun cheese", anyway is it though? I'd say destroying 4 armies is worth it (most of the time it's a win button)
Why not? it's somewhat easy and quick to do. Redball only needs 2 points to cutoff the entire frontline, and there are 4 players, there's even a nice house right next to one of the cutoffs from with your storms can spawn.
You just have to get a little creative. Caches won't help much, they'll just delay things a bit
So what you see saying is you literally have to defend one of 2 spots and the ability will do nothing... But you don't want to so the ability punishes that....
The smallest amount of effort and toy won't lose 4 armies worth of units plain and simple. It's as counterable as can be. 250mp across 4 players isn't too much to ask...
#stalinwept
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SHOUT IT OUT!
aerafield: @LimaOscarMike I would say nowadays is a decent time to try CoH3. If you loved CoH2 however, there is a solid chance you're gonna dislike CoH3
Today, 17:04 PM
Today, 17:04 PM
LimaOscarMike: My laptop can't even run COH3. Should I get them on my Series X or is it dead yet?
Last Saturday, 05:10 AM
Last Saturday, 05:10 AM
Rosbone: One of my last major gripes about Coh3. Price is still too high I feel for growth. But progress is always good.
Last Saturday, 04:43 AM
Last Saturday, 04:43 AM
Rosbone: I am not 100% sure but I think Relic actually fixed up the skirmish menus a little last patch. If so, thank you and keep it coming.
Last Saturday, 04:39 AM
Last Saturday, 04:39 AM
Osinyagov: Suddenly, coh2 is slowly dying, but you can play it, playerbase still big enough
09 Apr 2025, 17:00 PM
09 Apr 2025, 17:00 PM
SupremeStefan: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3457737797
04 Apr 2025, 12:42 PM
04 Apr 2025, 12:42 PM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone not dead yet. when that happens the font will switch to Papyrus 
02 Apr 2025, 00:16 AM
02 Apr 2025, 00:16 AM
aerafield: yeah I already prepared my "Can't believe there's comic mode for the 10 daily visitors even on this April 1st" 
01 Apr 2025, 20:29 PM
01 Apr 2025, 20:29 PM
Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
01 Apr 2025, 02:36 AM
01 Apr 2025, 02:36 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy 
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. 
.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
.24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! 
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
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