Of course grens struggle vs 280mp+bar tech+grenade tech+120muni. That's why you got pgrens and a sniper to supplement. USF don't, they just have rifles and some officers for utility.
you can't be serious......
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Of course grens struggle vs 280mp+bar tech+grenade tech+120muni. That's why you got pgrens and a sniper to supplement. USF don't, they just have rifles and some officers for utility.
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I'll just make the correction at this point:
Axis do not get stuff "for free". It is usually included in their tech cost, they just unlock it at different timings. There are some differences between factions though regarding tech costs in general. But this is not specific to Allies or Axis
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If you look at the tech of Soviets vs Ost. Ost most certainly gets stuff for free.
Ostheer gets access to grenades, LMGs, fausts, panzergrenadiers, an amazing machine gun, sniper, mortar all for the amazing price of 130MP (thanks you bonus 50MP starting resources for OST!). Meanwhile as Soviets you spend 160MP (no bonus for soviet scrubs) and get access to... No grenades, no weapon upgrades, no AT nades, a shit machine gun that is somehow 260MP, mortar, AT gun. Or they get penals/scoutcar/sniper.
If that doesn't qualify as 'getting stuff for free' then nothing can ever qualify as getting stuff for free.
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By your logic I guess british Assault officer is underpowered too? He was not built once despite tommies seemingly to struggle vs those Ostheer upgrades or callin inf. (win rates support that with brit win/loss vs ost).
Countary to that we actually did see grens (yes upgraded as you said), and Ostheer won a lot of games. I'm not seeing where the issue is here in balance.
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funny when it comes to allies tech is mention but when it comes to grenadiers, snipers and PGs tech suddenly disappear.
Grenadier and sniper require a building and that has a tech cost
Lmg and Pg need BP 1 and that is another tech cost
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Instead we should have a look at which times and for how much investment a faction can reach certain milestones like "4 mainlines and a support weapon on the field", "viable unlock of weapon upgrades" etc.
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That tech is 80mp and 10fuel. A molotov unlock costs more.
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I'm pretty sure Ostheer is dominant in the majority of those milestones.
4x mainline + 1 HMGs, they're first. (how couln't they be)
4x mainline + 1 support + 1 elite: first
4x mainline + 1 support + at snare + ai grenade: probably second behind OKW
4x mainline + 1 support + 1 elite + at snare + ai grenade: first again
4x mainline + 1 support + 1 elite + at snare + ai grenade + light vehicle (222): first again
4x mainline + 1 support + 1 elite + at snare + ai grenade + light vehicle + medic: probably 2nd depending on how you count OKW healing crate.
In fact, maybe except Brit, if you top all upgrades for USF and Soviet before teching medium tanks, Pz4 is cheaper to reach than Sherman and probably equal to T34. BUT we all know Soviet need badly the T70 to stay on the game, so if we count a T70 before going T34, the Pz4 is hitting the field before even if the Ostheer player went 251 AND 222.
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You math is wrong BP 1 also has a cost.
In addition that tech you mention is require to even get grenadiers when IS/riflemen/conscripts/VG are available at no tech cost. If you want to add all the tech when comparing with allied infatry you simply have to add the axis tech cost also.
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Well it really depends what and against whom you are comparing and how much this makes sense. 4 mainlines or similars make sense on all factions since this is a viable build. Additional AT gun also makes sense for basically all factions, additional MG not so much since OKW and USF were not designed to use MGs as an integral part and UKF and SOV don't necessarily need one either, especially not in the early game and even more especially not in the early game against Ostheer.
Also we may should not forget to compare the strengths of the composition afterwards (and the amount of unit options each faction gets). This is obviously quite tricky and situation dependent, but at least some points can be considered. E.g. Riflemen cost more than Grenadiere. Does USF therefor draw the short end of the stick? Nope, because Riflemen are very good infantry that usually beat Grenadiere unless you go for a long range shoot out. Similarly you can argue that OST get's it's 251 or 222 faster than SOV get their T70, but that's scewed as well. Now obviously there are more factors to that like for example OST's faction design in the early game revolving around using the MG42 and Grenadiere in conjunction, but we should not leave the power level out of sight.
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snip
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My bad, I fixated on the grens and missed the others.
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Non doctrine 5 man Grenadier upgraded unlocked after teching tier 1: Ostheer can choose between LMG42 upgrade ( only 4 man ) or choose 5 man squad ( block LMG42 + G43 upgrade and only 1 weapon slot picked up? ) for each individual Grenadier squad
The cost to get 5 man would be 60 muni
Maybe throw a bonus of idk, free healing with the 5 man upgrade or faster capping speed ( Like the bonus from the Assault Grenadier? )
Let's face it why everyone prefer Assault Grenadier or ostruppen this day: They got more than 4 man at the start, losing 1 model doesn't mean losing 25% firepower at the start.
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... And perhaps a weak grenade like the one on Panzerfusilier.
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5 man gren with 5 currently kar or 1 mp 40 and 20 dmg rifle with both end up with model burst issue like pre neft section and there for required a similar neft.