Changes i feel grens need

Honestly, I think the grens are in a good spot in 4v4 as a very solid all round frontline squad. Definitely have to respect them if they're behind cover there as getting LMG42s early on is practically guaranteed due to a teammate getting early AT focus to scare off LVs. Then they can freely upgrade without spending too much or worrying about being run off the field elsewhere. Rushing the grens behind cover isn't a good idea as OKW SPs are never far and the LMG will shred you on approach and they can run after bleeding you.....

In short, another buff to maybe their lategame might be needed as they're still trying to cap with 4 man squads....in the face of all that arty power.

We all know you hold ost as the holy grail

No I do not and if you think that you simply do not understand. One has to have benchmark regardless of what the benchmark is.

but rebalancing four factions instead of buffing a few things Ost and UKF need (stuff like Pak tracking were great changes NOT power creep) is not logical.

Buffing "few things" lead to powercreep.

And it allot easier to revert changes than moving to uncharted territories.

It actually the most logical thing to do.

As a 4v4 main with ranks +400 i shall share my opinion. Gren buff good but need rework so not op, gren buff nerf some else, just gren buff ost op, maybe b777f but cost increase

Nerf mg42 then we can talk

Nerf mg42 then we can talk

Restricting accessibility of 251 might also be in order.

The only thing they need is 26 mp reinforce. That's it. All other changes gonna rekt balance. It's known issue of balance team. They for sure gonna change all their stats to f*** up balance one more time (If they will do it though).

Restricting accessibility of 251 might also be in order.

Pushing all of T2 back is even better. No more 4min 222 plz.

Infantry Sections weren't op before the last patch which made UKF struggle but it would have been a better idea to help UKF in a different way and not bring back Tommy blobs which ruined almost all of my recent Axis 2v2s. I am not sure if UKF is really OP but it's just braindead to play against and completely unfun because people just insist to abuse to the maximum.

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Glad we see so much build diversity.

... I would think about something like adding a 150mp/15fu medics upgrade to the HQ (but keeping the medic bunker so players can choose what to invest) ....

Please do this. Not having to choose between sending 3/4 health squads into battle versus purchasing upgrades would be nice. I usually get two grens in 4v4's (must be only 1/2 as good (or less) as Aerafield as it feels like I need two) and they're really mediocre when not in cover and upgraded.

The only concern I'd have about that when playing allies is the time to get a flamer. In 4v4's, I've been encountering teams where one player goes mg42, mg42, 2nd pio, Pgren, 251, upgrades flamer and more Pgrens. The other gets either Volks or Pfusiliers and then 2x or sometimes 3x leigs. My AT gun is sometimes not even finished before the flamer is upgraded. Having the flamer earlier would cause even more problems.

Would a T4 bolster, similar to what cons get, be too much of a buff? In long 4v4's it would be nice to have the option to get a 5 man gren squad due to the amount of arty. Bringing in a vet 0 gren squad at 40 minutes isn't a great option. Making it exclusive with weapon upgrades should prevent too much power creep.

One of the main reasons people complain about Grens so much is that midrange isn't their domain with the possible expection of G43 spam. If you aren't any good at setting things up to keep that into account, you'll keep fighting at a disadvantage.

Grens aren't designed around mid- to close ranged combat so any buffs in that regard are not needed. A cheaper reinforcement(2 mp) cost and a slight DPS improvement at long range is thus my suggestion.

Pushing all of T2 back is even better. No more 4min 222 plz.

If 222 can't be called in in 4min, wouldn't that mean the 222's performance would need to be buffed?

Whilst I agree that Ost grenadier need a buff I think other units in the Ost likeup need a nerf. It would help to ease the constant power creep and help other underrated units to see more play

If 222 can't be called in in 4min, wouldn't that mean the 222's performance would need to be buffed?

Nope, if you delay it by 30secs it doesn't need a buff, it can still do more than well enough.

If anything the 222 is way too good for coming out so early. Couple that with everyone skipping Grens start for 0CP call ins and you get those 4min 222s that are oppressive af.

I spent numerous years playing Company of Heroes 1 and one thing that I miss from playing Whermacht in COH 1 vs COH 2 is the feeling of eliteness that COH 1 Whermacht had (When I say Eliteness I don't mean OP). For example Whermacht infantry had less squad members yes but they were able to trade pretty well with the superior squad sizes of Allied Infantry.

In COH 2 the feeling of small experienced german infantry army is gone and instead Grenadiers feel like paper and everything else in the game is Scissors ready to cut them to pieces.

So then what would I change with Grenadiers?

I would increase Grenadier Cost to 300 along with higher build times to prevent spamming. Have them start with the 20% Damage Reduction from the start (should probably lose the 20% damage reduction with 5 man Grenadier Upgrade)and also Start with Medkits. Have the MG42 upgrade moved to T4.

Grenadier Veterancy

Vet 1 : Reduce Ammo Cost of Med Kit by 15
Vet 2 : +40% accuracy.
Vet 3 :-20% weapon cooldown.
-25% recharge time of the Panzerfaust.
-15,74% recieved accuracy

Basically the goal is to have Grenadiers Bleed Way Less and give them a role (Assault Grenadiers and Ostruppen currently work better)

I've been saying for a few patches now that grens need to trade RA for better damage. They're balanced lukewarm, so theres no area for them to excel in. They struggle to survive, and they struggle to do damage.

My changes would be :

RA to 1
Far damage increased by like 20%
Mid by 15%
Close by 10%

Note that making them weaker means less time to do damage hence the disproportionate increase.


The Damage resistance should be moved to battlephases, and any other buffs. Something like:

BP1 4% damage reduction to vanilla troops

BP2 +5% damage reduction to vanilla troops
7% damage reduction to elite troops

BP3 6% damage reduction to vanilla troops
8% damage reduction to elite troops

Keep the remaining damage reduction required for 20% as a veterancy bonus if so desired else move it to battle phase.


The goal: Grens become actual glass cannons that can chase off capping squads and wipe low health squads instead of being an over all weak unit. The loss of survivablity makes MG-42 more important for defending the fragile squads, but makes it less necessary for assaulting which it doesn't do very well.

Moving damage reduction, and other potential buffs to battlephases helps recover some of the unique veterancy flavor of COH1 whermacht while also making them easier to balance i.e. is OST struggling early game, but dominating mid-game? Shift some of the battlephase bonuses from mid to early. Much easier than buffing base stats of grens to the point where they become strong early-game, but probably OP in some other phase.