Tier list 1vs1

Ost were touted as the underdogs and weakest faction of the tournament by many. (I thought they would struggle too) but they punched above their weight and were really allowed to flourish without being shoehorned into preparing for heavy meta.

Definitely a shakeup of balance, but OKW are still great too. Soviets and Brits probably a bit behind USF in 1vs1 for me. But maybe that's just Asiamint outclassing the rest, kind of like THE STIG from top gear outdriving my Ferrari in a smart car.

I was mostly just giving a sarcastic response to the many here who were so vocal about this patch being terrible, especially when this patch had such small changes to so few units.

It will take a couple months for people to adjust, even to the small changes. I don't have a good crystal ball to know how that will settle out and which factions will be on top.

I am relatively sure that the balance team needs to stand firm on their changes to the in cover/out of cover mechanic for Tommies, if they want UKF to stay viable in tournaments. If they do need to tone Tommies down, is should probably be in the base stats. (By the way, Theodosius has a replay from one of the vocal players who said Tommie blobs were unbeatable. It is definitely worth watching. Check the damage done by 5 man Grens versus Tommies if you watch it.)

It was interesting to finally see a tournament where every faction was played and some variety in commanders also. Relic should view this patch as successful.

snip

I actually agree, I'm not sure if you saw but in the stormjager thread that hit 100replies and was locked I was one of the ones comparing RA values and fighting the case for tommies to stay at 0.85 . But I can also understand why a lot of them were angry, abilities like Assault certainly encourage blobbing and for 30 seconds or so a tommy blob will win most engagements.

However the original nerf to tommies from 0.80 to 0.90 was a pretty sledgehammer nerf to survivability. I can see the logic them trying to discourage out of cover blobs, but this really messed up 4man tommy balance even more. As UKF you really suffer in the opening stages against smart volk and sturm play and that 0.90 value really makes retreats vs OKW and later Pgrens painful.

This with the slight vickers and sniper buff were supposed to diverse openings, but they're not enough to hold the ground for you vs StG volks or upgraded grens/pgren early-midgame. You need boots on the ground to screen for these units after all. This is why we had ashablois etc coming out and making threads saying UKF need some love again.


In my opinion next patch for UKF should look something like this


Nerfs/reworks


Commando doctrine "Assault" ability removed combat accuracy bonuses, instead grants sprint and halfed cooldown on all infantry abilities grenades etc. Price reduced to 45muni.

Cromwell increased by 10 fuel to compensate for new MG performance.

Tommy 4man section stays at 270mp, but core price of fresh sections increases to 300mp after bolster. (Sappers price unchanged)


Buffs/reworks

Mortar pit swapped out with mortar in lend lease doctrine so brits have indirect non-doc. Mortar in tactical support airdrop replaced with 50.cal.

"Heavy Sapper" movement penalty removed when in friendly territory. Active again inside enemy or neutral territory.

Churchill popcap mirrored with panther and comet. FF popcap to be reduced and put on par with SU-85.

AT tommies PIATS given "elite piat" with similar stats to elite bazookas. Upgrade price increased to 100 muni.

I actually agree, I'm not sure if you saw but in the stormjager thread that hit 100replies and was locked I was one of the ones comparing RA values and fighting the case for tommies to stay at 0.85 . But I can also understand why a lot of them were angry, abilities like Assault certainly encourage blobbing and for 30 seconds or so a tommy blob will win most engagements.

However the original nerf to tommies from 0.80 to 0.90 was a pretty sledgehammer nerf to survivability. I can see the logic them trying to discourage out of cover blobs, but this really messed up 4man tommy balance even more. As UKF you really suffer in the opening stages against smart volk and sturm play and that 0.90 value really makes retreats vs OKW and later Pgrens painful.

This with the slight vickers and sniper buff were supposed to diverse openings, but they're not enough to hold the ground for you vs StG volks or upgraded grens/pgren early-midgame. You need boots on the ground to screen for these units after all. This is why we had ashablois etc coming out and making threads saying UKF need some love again.


In my opinion next patch for UKF should look something like this


Nerfs/reworks


Commando doctrine "Assault" ability removed combat accuracy bonuses, instead grants sprint and halfed cooldown on all infantry abilities grenades etc. Price reduced to 45muni.

Cromwell increased by 10 fuel to compensate for new MG performance.

Tommy 4man section stays at 270mp, but core price of fresh sections increases to 300mp after bolster. (Sappers price unchanged)


Buffs/reworks

Mortar pit swapped out with mortar in lend lease doctrine so brits have indirect non-doc. Mortar in tactical support airdrop replaced with 50.cal.

"Heavy Sapper" movement penalty removed when in friendly territory. Active again inside enemy or neutral territory.

Churchill popcap mirrored with panther and comet. FF popcap to be reduced and put on par with SU-85.

AT tommies PIATS given "elite piat" with similar stats to elite bazookas. Upgrade price increased to 100 muni.

I wouldn't be surprised if the balance team looks at Assault in an upcoming patch. Similar abilities have been nerfed recently. I would be surprised if they made a regular mortar non-doc and the mortar pit doctrinal. It would be nice, but Relic hasn't allowed those types of changes before.

Just in the interest of having some Asymmetry, I'd actually be more interested in the Land Mattress being moved off doctrinal and being made into their 'mortar'.

The pit can work I feel. It just needs looked at to properly be a part of the army. Adding a barrage to Pyro Tommies, even say a WP barrage that requires the pit would make it more attractive. People I feel don't know how to use it- it's a lite howitzer that can auto fire at close range, not a mortar. Not in practice. It's barrage should be its prime use not its auto fire. It's auto fire allows you to free up micro on the defensive by hitting the enemy, but it's offensive power is its barrage. I'd look into increasing that firther whem garrisoned and with vet as well.

Just in the interest of having some Asymmetry, I'd actually be more interested in the Land Mattress being moved off doctrinal and being made into their 'mortar'.

It'd would be really hard to balance at any timing short of a Company Command Post. Right now, it seems really situational. It's great against an Ost that wants to camp with bunkers and weapon teams, but mediocre against everything else.

The pit can work I feel. It just needs looked at to properly be a part of the army. Adding a barrage to Pyro Tommies, even say a WP barrage that requires the pit would make it more attractive. People I feel don't know how to use it- it's a lite howitzer that can auto fire at close range, not a mortar. Not in practice. It's barrage should be its prime use not its auto fire. It's auto fire allows you to free up micro on the defensive by hitting the enemy, but it's offensive power is its barrage. I'd look into increasing that firther whem garrisoned and with vet as well.

The problem is that it's not mobile; once you pick a spot for it, it (and its vet) is locked to that position. I like the idea of adding WP barrage to Pyro tommies, but how would that work; would it only work within a certain range of the pit? If so, its way too restrictive. If it has far more range (or even infinite), there's no counter-play, especially if its built far behind the front-lines.

I just don't see a way to make it "part of the army" when it can't move, when CoH is based heavily around movement and positioning.

It'd would be really hard to balance at any timing short of a Company Command Post. Right now, it seems really situational. It's great against an Ost that wants to camp with bunkers and weapon teams, but mediocre against everything else.

I don't think it would be possible, short of re-balancing it so far that its a land-mattress in name (and model) only. It would need to be far more accurate, but far less damaging, and with a shorter barrage time. It could, for example, fire bursts of about 2 rockets, with the same accuracy as a mortar and the same delay between rounds/bursts; but at that point it's not the same unit.

The LM is designed to be a massive area-denial (and anti static weapon team) unit, not a precision-strike capable one.

It'd would be really hard to balance at any timing short of a Company Command Post. Right now, it seems really situational. It's great against an Ost that wants to camp with bunkers and weapon teams, but mediocre against everything else.

Camping Ost is really the only time i've missed having mobile, indirect fire platforms as Brits, so yes that would be the primary reason I want it.

A shorter, lower ranged, more accurate barrage on a cheaper platform would be ideal against anyone just trying to camp a spot.

A T2 Land Mattress that had a T3 upgrade (maybe locked behind Anvil or Hammer) to bring it closer in line with the existing version would work very well within the existing faction imo.

OKW is weakest.

RTS is often times called "3D chess". So what is missing from OKW? Exactly, the promotion Mechanic. Have you ever seen people send their Vet 5 Kübelwagen Ace into the enemy base? In Chess, this would net you a Queen, or a Königstiger in COh2. But it doesn't work. Clearly, this needs to be a thing. If Vet 5 Kübelwagen Ace makes it into enemy base, you get a Königstiger.

Second of all, the IR Halftrack is useless. You want me to spend 10 fuel for a Truck thats only for vision? What about the Kübelwagen who can spot into fog of war on Vet 2, for free? Or take a look at Soviets. They have a Tank destroyer that has a huge line of sight in a very small cone, it can spot targets by itself. Why does OKW have such a useless unit when Sovjets literally have an IR Halftrack build into a Tank destroyer?

The IR Halftrack needs to be buffed just like Vet 5 Kübelwagen Ace. With its huge flashlight, it should blind the opponent.

To impement this, simply take the Black Ink effect from the Squid From Mario Kart. Change its colour to white via paint. Then, whenever the IR halftrack shines its flashlight into the enemy base, the enemy player will be blinded (can remove the white spot on monitor with a gentle blow just like on Nintendo DS).

There you go, balance team. Hire me.

One of the issues with the mortar pit is that dual mortar that land together can easily wipe.

One could try making 1 mortar only autofire and the other one only barrage.

As for emplacements one could rework them reworking so that need a crew to become better or even operate.

The ultimate fix for ukf and we are on a kind of late stage for it would be to implement elements crew units that can leave like USF vehicles. Then the crew holds the veterancy and can rebuild the emplacement in another spot. This must require a lot of time just to avoid a slow but steady steamroll tower rush

Veterancy is irrelevant for the UKF Mortar. Sticking a unit to garrison gives all the real benefits of Vet 1 and 2. It just needs lower pop cap, easier and cheaper to build and tear down, and make medics heal automatically from it. Strip a mortar from it need be, only 1 is used for the all important smoke barrage anyways.

Pop cost is the only real issue that UKF needs fixed (after mortar), but that's taking some serious work to figure WHAT needs tweaking and WHY. Tommys are 1 more than other main lines, AO is 1 more than most semi-elite troops (and all factions now basically use 4 infantry: 3 basic 1 elite/semi-elite), 2 engineers appear mandatory for UKF snare duty, that's an extra 6, but Sturms are 8 from the get go... so only 4 cost difference. Their tanks require an extra AT gun to compete with equally pop costed tanks, which costs 7. FF is costed like a Jackson but performs demonstrably worse, especially with how muni-intensive UKF is and the low odds of hitting the second Tulip at long range, but cannot be made cheaper due to timing (or it'll club P-4s). But still, not enough to draw proper balance conclusions. Churchill is pop priced more than a Panther.... I get the historic problems, just seems pricey for not-special Churchill.

No smoking gun.

Oh, and the 17 lb costs 14 vs the 10 of the Pak 44. Easy standardize (pick one), they are basically the same gun. But emplacements are really just for mid level big team games.

I need to redo the TTK of the P4 vs Crommy and Panther vs Comet.

Brits>Sov=Usf>Wehr>okw

what an odd tier list after watching OKW, Ost and Soviet dominating the tournament

what an odd tier list after watching OKW, Ost and Soviet dominating the tournament

Having people play Brits, even if they lost 0-2 in the finals, meant that UKF is clearly more OP than some people want them to be. To them, it won't be balanced unless nobody plays Brits, like the last GCS.

The only thing you can gather from this is that there's no such thing as one faction dominance and that UKF is competitive once again to be worth bringing into a tournament. Anything else is too low of a sample size.

One of the issues with the mortar pit is that dual mortar that land together can easily wipe.

One could try making 1 mortar only autofire and the other one only barrage.

As for emplacements one could rework them reworking so that need a crew to become better or even operate.

Cut the price and built time by haft for 1 mortar at fist, then upgrade in to the second one.

And, if possible, take the further step in crew/reposition/vet retain.

what an odd tier list after watching OKW, Ost and Soviet dominating the tournament

What are you on about, noggano rode the tournament to the finals all the way with brits????? and ostheer. Asiamint is the exepction because he plays like a weirdo and was the only guy who did OKW as luvnest,noggano,kimbo,me,vonivan all did ostheer over OKW

Oh him and tiramisu did okw and i think thats a korean community thing, i'd even go so far to say that he won purely because he was a /lot/ better than his opponent. Like Asiamint is a geninune tier above most people even the top. Its insane.

Anyway as for brits, Kimbo,noggano,me all used it and well... two of those made it to top 4 so???

Anyway as for brits, Kimbo,noggano,me all used it and well... two of those made it to top 4 so???

Ah yes, Kimbo and Noggano, players who are clearly not top 4 material and were carried up there by brits.

Ah yes, Kimbo and Noggano, players who are clearly not top 4 material and were carried up there by brits.

Considering the conversations ive had with noggano and kimbo (The latter who thinks you basically lose the game if you dont kill the AEC valentine combo before 13 min you lose, and the former who when asked about what to do vs brits was "So far i think only 5 man are a good answer") i can with certainty say they used brits a significant part for a good reason.

Split the difference. Make the out only use one mortar unless garrisoned. The price can then be lowered a bit more and it's barrage range extended further.

As for the WP maybe have the pit mix in WP to the regular Pyro barrage which is primarily area denial anyways.