Why does ISU152 have so much speed and rear armor?
ISU152
1040 HP
340/155
Speed 4.5 - 5.4
Target size 26
Elefant
1040 HP
400/110
Speed 3.3 - 4
Target size 26
PIV near penetration is 125!
While Allies med tanks near pen are 120-140!
ISU152 vs Elefant - harder to kill an ISU152
16 Apr 2020, 09:53 AM
#1
Posts: 1794
16 Apr 2020, 10:53 AM
#2
Posts: 570 | Subs: 1
Isu is better purely because the HE outranges the ATGs
16 Apr 2020, 11:02 AM
#3
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Strange poll.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
16 Apr 2020, 11:29 AM
#4
Posts: 372
Strange poll.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
16 Apr 2020, 12:55 PM
#5
Posts: 1794
Strange poll.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
Spotting scopes already nerf.
As OP doctrines can get, we should examine the units first. And ISU152 has too much armor/speed that makes Ost unable to counter as well as Elefant gets countered!
Every Allies Shermans Cromwells and T34 can rush in and bam 160x160x160 against a helpless Elefant!
16 Apr 2020, 13:14 PM
#6
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Certain vehicles should have their rear armored lowered while other should have their rear armored increased.
ISU fall under the first category.
ISU fall under the first category.
16 Apr 2020, 13:35 PM
#7
Posts: 306
i think isu armor should be lowered to be honest (at least rear), kind of stupid for a p4 to bounce rear, front armor could be looked at too, since panther seems quite inconsistent vs it, and its kind of the only counter wher has (exept ele)
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16 Apr 2020, 13:38 PM
#8
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Jäger armour should lose spotting scopes and get a vehicle detection ability like the soviets get on Shock Motor.
ISU should go down to 880 health, Mechanized Support should lose mark target for repair stations and IL2 nukes for IL2 Cluster bombs. Shock Motor should lose the IL2 nukes for IL2 anti infantry loiter.
ISU should go down to 880 health, Mechanized Support should lose mark target for repair stations and IL2 nukes for IL2 Cluster bombs. Shock Motor should lose the IL2 nukes for IL2 anti infantry loiter.
16 Apr 2020, 13:39 PM
#9
Posts: 306
Strange poll.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
the bombs are kind of stupid in both commanders, they stop howitzer play, and heavies get countered by isu or ele ( since you need paks with the heavis in the isu matchup). Leaving players with the only choice to pick ele to counter isu and vice verso (since bombs + ram seems one of the best ways to kill ele) leaving a very stall 2vs2 meta
FIRE AND TERROR PLAYERCARD https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198321057937
16 Apr 2020, 15:27 PM
#10
Posts: 1954
This is kind of a weird poll, considering how one is mostly just AI and the other is AT. I don't get what the fascination some people have with rear armor. Either of them usually are lost if they get flanked. I did vote (ISU seems like it has more of an impact on the game) but it still seams like a weird poll. I do agree that Ele or JT versus ISU seems pretty stale.
Ele versus JT would be a more interesting poll. JT seems to have kept more of it's relevance than the Ele. The HE barrage on weapons teams seems okay.
Ele versus JT would be a more interesting poll. JT seems to have kept more of it's relevance than the Ele. The HE barrage on weapons teams seems okay.
16 Apr 2020, 15:50 PM
#11
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
This is kind of a weird poll, considering how one is mostly just AI and the other is AT.
ISU152 is extremely capable vs armour with AP rounds. It’s both AI and AT.
16 Apr 2020, 16:19 PM
#12
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
ISU152 is extremely capable vs armour with AP rounds. It’s both AI and AT.
It has 260/230/200 pen, which is only enough to reliably penetrate medium tanks (even if it has deflection damage). And it deals 240 damage rather than 300. While this certainly isn't bad, it is not at all comparable to the Elefant (and Jagdtiger) with enough far range pen for a guaranteed penetration on any tank in the game and a significantly lower TTK against most vehicles. Not to mention a roughly 20% slower reload and worse gun traverse. It's good enough at AT, but calling it extremely capable (at AT) is a gross overstatement.
16 Apr 2020, 16:23 PM
#13
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
It has 260/230/200 pen, which is only enough to reliably penetrate medium tanks (even if it has deflection damage). And it deals 240 damage rather than 300. While this certainly isn't bad, it is not at all comparable to the Elefant (and Jagdtiger)
That’s not a fair comparison. I’m comparing it to the Soviet faction’s other TD, the SU85, which it has more penetration and damage than. It’s extremely reliable as a Heavy TD for the Soviet faction.
16 Apr 2020, 16:28 PM
#14
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
That’s not a fair comparison. I’m comparing it to the Soviet faction’s other TD, the SU85, which it has more penetration and damage than. It’s extremely reliable as a Heavy TD for the Soviet faction.
But it's worse at AT than the SU-85. Its TTK against both medium vehicles (at vet 0 17s for the SU-85 vs 20,5s for the ISU-152 against an Ostheer P4, counted from the first shot and disregarding accuracy) and against heavies (45,2s vs 51,25s against a Tiger I) is longer and the SU-85 gets even better with veterancy.
Its actual AT performance is decent at best, although of course being able to switch in the first place is significantly better than nothing and does help its versatility.
16 Apr 2020, 16:31 PM
#15
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
But it's worse at AT than the SU-85. Its TTK against both medium vehicles (at vet 0 17s for the SU-85 vs 20,5s for the ISU-152 against an Ostheer P4, counted from the first shot and disregarding accuracy) and against heavies (45,2s vs 51,25s against a Tiger I) is longer and the SU-85 gets even better with veterancy.
I didn’t say it’s better than the SU85, I said it’s an AT and AI unit and extremely reliable as AT due to its good pen and damage since vet 0.
16 Apr 2020, 16:33 PM
#16
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I didn’t say it’s better than the SU85, I said it’s an AT and AI unit and extremely reliable as AT due to its good pen and damage since vet 0.
Except that it isn't extremely reliable against anything bigger than a medium tank, as I've already told you. It has relatively low long range penetration (which does not increase with vet) and an extremely long reload on top of having slow gun traverse.
16 Apr 2020, 16:33 PM
#17
Posts: 40 | Subs: 1
It does a good enough job at keeping axis armor at bay while simultaneously negating infantry.
16 Apr 2020, 16:41 PM
#18
Posts: 1954
Except that it isn't extremely reliable against anything bigger than a medium tank, as I've already told you. It has mediocre long range penetration and an extremely long reload on top of having slow gun traverse.
This sums up the ISU's AT. Your first statement about the gross overstatement was spot on. I've not seen any replays where good Soviet players use it primarily on AT. Also, the long switch time from HE to AT means that it's going to be a spectator for the first part of any tank battle.
16 Apr 2020, 16:45 PM
#19
Posts: 1794
ISU152 is very hard to kill! That is the problem. You can kill an elefant with double t34.
Rear armor needs a nerf! Pronto!
Rear armor needs a nerf! Pronto!
16 Apr 2020, 16:45 PM
#20
Posts: 4474
how does it compare to jt and elefant
But it's worse at AT than the SU-85. Its TTK against both medium vehicles (at vet 0 17s for the SU-85 vs 20,5s for the ISU-152 against an Ostheer P4, counted from the first shot and disregarding accuracy) and against heavies (45,2s vs 51,25s against a Tiger I) is longer and the SU-85 gets even better with veterancy.
Its actual AT performance is decent at best, although of course being able to switch in the first place is significantly better than nothing and does help its versatility.
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