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What's wrong with UKF?

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Vipper
9 Apr 2020, 15:23 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 15:07 PMSander93


All other factions have stock light AI vehicles to fight against CQC units in the early mid game. Soviets have stock flamethrowers, the M3 and Penals to ward off CQC units. OKW has Sturmpioneers and STG 44 Volks, Ostheer has stock flamethrowers and PGrens. USF has close to mid range orientated mainline infantry.

The UKF are the only ones who can consistently get overrun by CQC units (most notably on urban or other CQC orientated maps) because they have nothing in their stock arsenal to efficiently stop CQC units. The Universal Carrier can work, but doesn't on most CQC maps. The AEC doesn't deal enough AI damage.

Now since we can't magically conjure up a new AI vehicle, and since we do not want to buff Royal Engineers for obvious reasons, they will get the Assault Officer to help defend Infantry Sections from getting overrun by CQC units.

If the idea is to use the officer against Assault grenadier he probably comes too late. Other than that there not many Axis stock Axis CQB units out there to begin with.

UKF have problems but CBQ is not one imo (for instance grenades can work fine) and there a number option in solving some of their problem.

One could try to make:
Hammer/Anvil option available for infatry giving access to 5 entities/Bren modeled after BAR and 4 entities Vicker-K modeled after Grenadier.

For vehicles one could make make the same option available with AEC/Valentine making bofors stock
and/or
one could decrease the power level of Centaur making available earlier.

Or one could make Ro.E available earlier so that they can help defend vs CQB units.
:)
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Domine
9 Apr 2020, 15:28 PM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 15:07 PMSander93


All other factions have stock light AI vehicles to fight against CQC units in the early mid game. Soviets have stock flamethrowers, the M3 and Penals to ward off CQC units. OKW has Sturmpioneers and STG 44 Volks, Ostheer has stock flamethrowers and PGrens. USF has close to mid range orientated mainline infantry.

The UKF are the only ones who can consistently get overrun by CQC units (most notably on urban or other CQC orientated maps) because they have nothing in their stock arsenal to efficiently stop CQC units. The Universal Carrier can work, but doesn't on most CQC maps. The AEC doesn't deal enough AI damage.

Now since we can't magically conjure up a new AI vehicle, and since we do not want to buff Royal Engineers or the AEC for obvious reasons, they will get the Assault Officer to help defend Infantry Sections from getting overrun by CQC units.



This isn't helped by the fact that UKF usually only have snares on their sappers, which are highly capped in their maximum usefulness, and therefore consigned to low numbers on the field.
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Lago
9 Apr 2020, 15:30 PM
#23
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 08:09 AMRiley
Why were the British called OP recently, and now everyone agrees that this is a useless faction? (Except ardent fans of the axis, because of which the faction nerfs went)


Relic kept trying to make CoH 2's expansion factions play differently by restricting their access to basic tools like snares and indirect fire, but giving them very powerful gimmicks.

It didn't work, and one by one each faction's been reworked to tone down its gimmicks and fill out the holes in its roster.

That makes UKF's power level go up and down every patch. Remove a crutch unit? The power falls through the floor, like when SBP (Centaur and Bren nerf) killed off the faction almost entirely. Give it a missing basic tool? The power shoots up, like the Infantry Section meta we got after Sapper Snares became a thing.

This patch is trying to give UKF some form of viable indirect fire. It'll be interesting to see if it works.
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achpawel
9 Apr 2020, 17:33 PM
#24
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 11:43 AMButcher
The thing wrong with Brits is their design as a whole.
Emplacements were cancer. Now with the nerfs you can't really use them though the cancer mortar pit remains a problem on some maps (crossing in the woods, Charkow).

The concept of a high HP, high armor vehicle (Churchill) is shit. Especially when there is no non doc Axis high range, high pen td. I consider 50 range insufficient for that.

Cover bonus on mainline infantry was a mistake. Hard to balance. You want to attack with your inf, not camp in cover.

A t0 heavy vehicle is frustrating to play against aswell.

Could continue this rant but long story short Brits will always be annoying (either for the user or the opponent) and not fit the game.

Yep. I am especially baffled by the whole idea of extra cover boosts. Cover gives boosts and that is enough. With those extra boosts they will be either too strong in cover or too weak out of it.
    I play 1v1 :)

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    thekingsown10
    9 Apr 2020, 18:03 PM
    #25
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    The REAL reason is people were so used to playing an overpowered faction... and when it gets more back in line they complain because their cheese strat with op units and abilities doesn't work as well anymore.

    I am a proud Brit myself but the faction in this game was nothing but cancer ever since day 1. The infantry section was flat out of control for a long time .

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    achpawel
    9 Apr 2020, 18:32 PM
    #26
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    jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 18:03 PMthekingsown10
    The REAL reason is people were so used to playing an overpowered faction... and when it gets more back in line they complain because their cheese strat with op units and abilities doesn't work as well anymore.

    I am a proud Brit myself but the faction in this game was nothing but cancer ever since day 1. The infantry section was flat out of control for a long time .


    My personal belief is that creating lots of UK units relic basically developed ostheer with 5 men squads, self-sufficient mgs, reliable light vehicle and lategame sturdy tanks. Sort of ostheer dream at the moment it was created (plus emplacements) :)
      I play 1v1 :)

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      Grim
      9 Apr 2020, 18:34 PM
      #27
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      jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 18:03 PMthekingsown10
      The REAL reason is people were so used to playing an overpowered faction... and when it gets more back in line they complain because their cheese strat with op units and abilities doesn't work as well anymore.

      I am a proud Brit myself but the faction in this game was nothing but cancer ever since day 1. The infantry section was flat out of control for a long time .



      While the UKF faction was indeed strong on release it was quickly nerfed. I think it still falls short of being 'back in line' at present.

      They started out much like an 'allied ost' in many ways, which of course drove certain members of the community into a frenzied rage.



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      Katitof
      9 Apr 2020, 19:38 PM
      #28
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      jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 18:03 PMthekingsown10
      The REAL reason is people were so used to playing an overpowered faction... and when it gets more back in line they complain because their cheese strat with op units and abilities doesn't work as well anymore.

      Hey, look, the first sane thing you've ever said in the last 3 years!
      OKW is the prime example of that, nerfs after nerfs and the faction is still too strong, so more nerfs are coming next patch and more REEE will happen.
      jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 18:32 PMachpawel

      My personal belief is that creating lots of UK units relic basically developed ostheer with 5 men squads, self-sufficient mgs, reliable light vehicle and lategame sturdy tanks. Sort of ostheer dream at the moment it was created (plus emplacements) :)

      That was the whole point of UKF existence, faction that's weak in early game and strong enough to compete against axis factions in late game, rivaling late game tank power spike of stock axis forces.
      It was back then when if allies didn't win by 20th minute, it was pretty much autowin for axis player, especially USF suffered because of this as heavy tanks and panthers roflstomped them.

      That design is dead, UKF has lost all of its crutches and gimmicks it heavily relied on as the faction lacks a LOT of basic tools and the last strong point of the faction, sections, were nerfed so bad they had to buff them in multiple ways just so they can compete again.
      jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
      Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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      KiwiBirb
      9 Apr 2020, 21:20 PM
      #29
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      Posts: 789

      Was adding the Valentine stock to UKF ever considered?

      To me this seems like the best option
      Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them

      and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
      One can hope
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      Support Sapper
      10 Apr 2020, 00:59 AM
      #30
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      jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 21:20 PMKiwiBirb
      Was adding the Valentine stock to UKF ever considered?

      To me this seems like the best option


      This, again.
      My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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      SkysTheLimit
      10 Apr 2020, 01:22 AM
      #31
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      jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 21:20 PMKiwiBirb
      Was adding the Valentine stock to UKF ever considered?

      To me this seems like the best option


      I really don't think they need it. Why dont we see how they do with the buffs that just went live? Adding a valentine stock would be a huge change, I think they are avoiding anything of that magnitude at this point
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      blancat
      10 Apr 2020, 03:04 AM
      #33
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      jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 21:20 PMKiwiBirb
      Was adding the Valentine stock to UKF ever considered?

      To me this seems like the best option


      No
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      blancat
      10 Apr 2020, 03:15 AM
      #34
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      UKF has smaller unit pools than other factions because of the presence of emblacement.

      By the way, is the emplacement worth it now?

      What's going on with the UKF after killing Emplacement and now Tommy

      Isn't it strange that nothing happened?
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      distrofio
      10 Apr 2020, 03:24 AM
      #35
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      jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 03:15 AMblancat
      UKF has smaller unit pools than other factions because of the presence of emblacement.

      This premise is false to begin with. Or at least incomplete
      PD: Bolster says Hi.
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      blancat
      10 Apr 2020, 03:29 AM
      #36
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      jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 03:24 AMdistrofio

      This premise is false to begin with. Or at least incomplete
      PD: Bolster says Hi.



      I'm talking about the number of units right now. What are you talking about?


      Perhaps you know I'm talking about the squad number?

      Don't you know how to read and understand the context?

      You'll only see what you want to see anyway
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      Skabinsk
      10 Apr 2020, 04:49 AM
      #37
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      Posts: 238

      you had me until you said vickers is more effective than MG-42
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      SuperHansFan
      10 Apr 2020, 05:20 AM
      #38
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      jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 03:24 AMdistrofio

      This premise is false to begin with. Or at least incomplete
      PD: Bolster says Hi.


      By unit pool he means selection of different units. This is especially noticeable with infantry/team weapons. E.g they don't have a mortar in their unit pool because an emplacement was supposed to do that job.

      Bolster is not a unit.

      Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is :hansREKT:
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      Vermillion_Hawk
      10 Apr 2020, 05:31 AM
      #39
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      jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2020, 14:00 PMT.R. Stormjäger


      Not to defend Ullumulu but these are not all weaknesses.


      It's shocking how little you actually know about the Brits. Trenches are essentially useless against CQB infantry and take time to build in friendly territory, so they slow down your initial push too much to be of any value when they're needed most. I'll grant you the Vickers synergy but I also think that the vet 1 extra range should be taken away.

      I still feel Tommies should get the Heavy Gammon Bomb as a snare and not a useless pseudo-satchel. Either that or they should reword the description of the ability so it's not a blatant lie. The sniper also doesn't have a stun shot, and their critical shot (which only disables turret rotation on anything above a StuG and doesn't even deal engine damage to the aforementioned) requires vet 1.
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      distrofio
      10 Apr 2020, 07:27 AM
      #40
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      Posts: 2358

      jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 05:20 AMSuperHansFan


      By unit pool he means selection of different units. This is especially noticeable with infantry/team weapons. E.g they don't have a mortar in their unit pool because an emplacement was supposed to do that job.

      Bolster is not a unit.

      Oh i get it now, i really though he ment that UKF has 4 men squads. Thats why i pointed out bolster

      anyways, my bad
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