Should soviet Combat E ngineers be buffed?

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 03:57 AMporkloin

What's your highest rank, and what rank player do I have to beat for it to be an acceptable replay for you then?

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 02:47 AMFelixTHM

The sandbag argument doesn't hold water.

The mainlines that don't get sandbags/green cover have it on their engineers instead. Pios having sandbags instead of the mainline is a serious disadvantage, and you're misunderstanding it as an advantage. It's the same case for Rifles, except that Rear Echelons have significantly less duties - no repairs, no base-building, no anti-garrison (disadvantage actually).

I've always found it necessary to get a relatively early second pio since repairs/wires/mines/sweeping/cover building/anti-garrison/base-building duty require 2 pios combined.

I'm quite sure grenadiers would actually start being pretty good if they could build their own sandbags to protect themselves instead of getting roflstomped the moment allied infantry appears.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 04:12 AMMazianni

Honestly, I think even a basic automatch attempt with the CE strat could be illuminative, given the weaknesses I laid out. I'd be interested in a replay of even that.

You haven't told me why you think I'm wrong about CEs though, and I am curious to know, but if you feel so strongly about this topic that you would prefer to demonstrate their supposed capabilities in a replay than I can only wish you the best.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 01:27 AMporkloin

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Show me some high level games where CE spam gets stomped if you think it's non-viable. I'd argue the reason you don't see it that often is because 'that's not how you play the game' rather than ineffectiveness.

I'm not familiar with OKW and thought SP were a tad more expensive. Do you think sturm pios are more cost effective than volksgren?

I didn't push CE vs conscripts.

A 5% difference in reinforce cost and 7.5% difference in pop is kinda splitting hairs when CE have a 10% increase in RA.

I compared CE to conscripts because they're in the same army. There's a wide variation in mainlines, but they're generally agreed to be balanced against each other. If CE are on par with conscripts it follows they'll be on par with the other mainlines despite more varied stats.

3 CE will beat two of any mainline infantry except for charging rifleman in open cover, and max range infantry sections if you want to go down this road, but your interest seems to be muddying the waters rather than taking a critical look at things.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 09:17 AMelchino7

Not to sound elitist, but anything works at lower ranks. This applies in any RTS. If CE spam was wrecking havoc in tournaments and in top100 ladder i would be concerned. At top200? Mildly amused. A pocket strat from a specific niche of players, interested (say for example mechanized HT play ala TwistedTootsy)

I've already told u why CE spam doesn't work. The current (and basically since alpha days) meta is heavy light vehicle play. Light vehicles have always been a key aspect on 1v1 and CE are not a unit which can counter them effectively. Which is why you will see that right now, OKW is more effective than OH on 1v1 because they can deploy an effective light tank to deal with AI (P2) and a counter to them (Puma).
Even if you play against OH, they will use a combination of either PG/222/FHT to deal with those.

You might be right and rose the ladder to top 100 and change the soviet meta. I would put my bet that CE and CE spam strats are not an issue at all.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 09:44 AMporkloin

CE spam doesn't work because LV play? Which LV do the soviets have again?

You're just deflecting. 1v1 me if you don't think I'm a high enough rank to have an opinion. Surely you're top 100 right?

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 10:04 AMKatitof

What are your CEs gonna do against 251? 222? Luchs? flak 251?

Also, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.
Regardless how wrong one it is.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 09:44 AMporkloin

CE spam doesn't work because LV play? Which LV do the soviets have again?

You're just deflecting. 1v1 me if you don't think I'm a high enough rank to have an opinion. Surely you're top 100 right?

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 10:15 AMT.R. Stormjäger

I’m 72 and you’re dreaming if you think CE spam is anything but a meme. Rank 600 is nonexistent tier, people don’t know what they’re doing there and you can blob your way to victory. This strat only works in higher tier if you’re better than your opponent. For instance if Luvnest goes CE spam vs me then he’ll win because he’s light years ahead as a player, but if he tries that vs Noggano he’ll absolutely lose. It’s a bad strat since you’re relying on Infantry that’s 4man, no merge, no combat veterancy and no snare to protect your vehicles from a Puma.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 07:25 AMporkloin

https://www.coh2.org/replay/104649/fourms-arguement-1

20 minute game vs a rank 600 something OST

I wasn't lucky enough to get any higher ranking players unfortunately. Went 9-2 for the night with no infantry other than CE and AT guns in a couple games.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 11:01 AMporkloin

Here's me, rank 600 something soviet losing to *!*!Rank 87 *!*! stormjaeger. Apparently blobs counter CE spam, but not conscripts, and so we don't need a rematch where I'm building mgs.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 11:02 AMT.R. Stormjäger

Yeah I’m the bully. Not like you’re the one who asked for a fight or anything...

And the maxim is trash, you’re delusional if you think it would have saved you.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 11:08 AMachpawel

Thumbs up for the really masculine way to settle differences - on the battlefield! Do you throw gloves beforehand?