Should soviet Combat E ngineers be buffed?

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 01:00 AMSkysTheLimit

Pios and CEs should get a received accuracy bonus with vet. Idk why they don't, doesn't need to be that large either. Like -10/15% or so at vet 2

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2020, 10:43 AMsuora

But in practice pioneers aren't very combat effective because they take too much damage while closing in. Even combat engineers beat them if microed properly.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 11:21 AMachpawel

Reply to: Katitof, thedarkarmadillo

They become too cheap lategame when you need to use them to repair. They are also too cheap early game. Both these things give Soviets manpower advantage.
I don't understand how you can say that their stats are worse compared to pios, which are 200mp. They are just different - not worse. The mines they have are best/most useful mines imo.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 12:32 PMthedarkarmadillo

No, they are objectively worse. Their only redeeming quality is that they are cheap. How are they worse you ask? Do they have bonus sight like pios?
Can they build bunkers that can lock down territory or keep units on the front healed? Reinforced? Can they heal anything at all? Do they even have sand bags?
Aside from that they have the same wire as pios, the same mimes as sturms and a demo that has been all but removed from the game. They are cheap because they are not worth more.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 13:19 PMachpawel

Imho it is better to have a cheaper squad that repairs as quickly as other pios lategame than a more expensive one. It is also better to have more cheaper squads early game than fewer more expensive squads that are still incapable of combat (sturmpios aside). All the utilities of other pios mean very little here. Their basic and most important functions are the same. You shouldn't compare CE to sturmpios as the price difference is jus enormous. Pios (ost) aren't better - they are just different.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 14:20 PMVipper

Ro.E are easily the far better than Pioneer.

AT grenade and cover destruction alone bring above other engineer squads.

C.E. are a very cost efficient engineer unit and are fine.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 14:43 PMHannibal

I would not count the AT grenade. They only have it because UKF does not get snare on the mainlines. It's more of a patchwork fix for the faction than an actual utility on the unit.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 14:50 PMVipper

Well they still have it.

And clearing shot blocker is an op ability.

In any case WFA can get AT weapons on their engineer and some of them can get LMG so I doubt that pioneer are "best engineer unit in the whole game".

Pioneer are extremely difficult to gain any veterancy past 2 min mark.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 15:00 PMHannibal

I do not doubt that they are better. Although I'd say their biggest asset it that they profit from the 5 man upgrade. Just the AT nade was a bit off. UKF can get weapon on they engineers, but usually this upgrade comes rather late in the game, as well as the Anvil LMG upgrade. OST can get a flame thrower early on.
However they also cost more. 250 MP if I recall correctly vs 200 MP of the pioneer. So yes, they are better, but not without drawbacks.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 13:58 PMKatitof

If repairs are your priority, you have a doctrine for that.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 13:58 PMKatitof

You're fighting windmills here and not even a single player, no matter how bad he is agrees with you.
Its time to stop, because you're dragging it for the sake of arguing as nothing'll come out of it

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 13:58 PMKatitof

And yes, pios ARE better.
Much higher DPS at effective range and increased sight alone makes them better.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 13:58 PMKatitof

In fact, pios might be THE best engineers in the whole game, thanks to the sight alone, making them the ultimate infantry to recrew weapons, especially HMGs.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 15:12 PMWiderstreit

lol this thread.

CE are better than Ostheers' Pios. They are cheaper and are better with flamer, because of their weapon-profile, they are still usefull in late-game, while Pios get obsolete after min 10 (beside rep. + building something)

Ostheer Pios can build Bunker, Grens and Osttruppen can built them as well.

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 15:03 PMVipper

cost 210

Jump back to quoted post29 Mar 2020, 15:33 PMachpawel

And to make people remeber - a bunker costs 150mp (almost Soviet engineer price) and does nothing. You have to add 60 munitions on top of that. So, a static position for 150mapower and 50 munitions - Thats is another Soviet flamer engineer. A much better investment!