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Panthers and Stugs

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Mr Carmine
17 Mar 2020, 07:58 AM
#21
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Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 07:43 AMNaOCl


Yes, Yes I have.

If you're losing the armour war to axis.

You're fucking spicy hot garbage.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats a wall of jacksons in a 4v4.


So jackons will wipe inf and at guns and shoot down at strafes any day all day?

Lol just joking.
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mrgame2
17 Mar 2020, 08:02 AM
#22
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Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 07:43 AMNaOCl


Yes, Yes I have.

If you're losing the armour war to axis.

You're fucking spicy hot garbage.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats a wall of jacksons in a 4v4.


This prove you have not played 4v4 as allies as much. Wall of Jackson cant help against panthers and shrek and AA strafe.

Imo that's the point. 640hp allies tanks simply don't cut it in mass battles, and i and many have enough experience as proof.
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NaOCl
17 Mar 2020, 08:03 AM
#23
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Posts: 378

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 07:58 AMMr Carmine


So jackons will wipe inf and at guns and shoot down at strafes any day all day?

Lol just joking.


I don't think the axis strafes actually work.

I know for fact that the USF and SOV ones work disproportionately well. For a similar cost, they'll take out tanks in the enemy base sector, whilst axis strafes cant even finish a snared allied tank.
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NaOCl
17 Mar 2020, 08:07 AM
#24
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Posts: 378

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 01:18 AMmrgame2
Nope. Panther is so much faster than FF. 200x3 plus a faust or shrek or pak40. Kills medium tanks even faster
Totally invalidate 640 tanks in team games

How about we leave them as it and ost players work harder to devise a good play style? Your faction already has all the best versatile units


You need to try axis, everything allied wins in a vaccum.

t-34/85 has a fair shot of 1v1ing a panther, if the panther even misses once, which is always does, even stationary.
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Aerohank
17 Mar 2020, 08:21 AM
#25
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I would just give it a penetration bonus. Performance against mediums remains the same and performance against heavies goes up.
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Hannibal
17 Mar 2020, 08:32 AM
#26
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With the StuG being usable again, we might give the Panther another role than brawling against mediums.
Idea is worth a try for test modes.

Could someone of the balance team give insight if a Panther rework is allowed by Relic in terms of scope? Not for this patch obviously, but a potential next patch.
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Mr Carmine
17 Mar 2020, 10:53 AM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 08:03 AMNaOCl


I don't think the axis strafes actually work.

I know for fact that the USF and SOV ones work disproportionately well. For a similar cost, they'll take out tanks in the enemy base sector, whilst axis strafes cant even finish a snared allied tank.


I dont know the stats, but the allied strafe alone doesnt seem to be enough. Its mostly used on already pretty beat up tanks, usualy 2 salvos hit and that finishes it off. In case of heavies barely.
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Belgboi
17 Mar 2020, 14:03 PM
#28
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Posts: 4

the way I would really do it is shuffle around some units mabye nerf okw pz4 make it t2 and make sure the jpz4 is a good counterpart for the su85 with more range damage and accuracy and worse AI (and okw really needs some AI vehicles that aren't light only or more range like the scott units)

primarily for OST they need a jpz4 in their lineup or a nashorn some new unit at least. for Ost in general I would shift their lineup down and lock them to battle phases
put grens t0 with MG, put the 222 t1 with bp2 unlock shift the panzerwerfer down to t3 and add the jpz4 to OST, stugs are not comparable in any way to FF su85 and jacksons, alternatively add a jagdpanther instead of a nashorn if new units would at all be possible. OST just has a poor dedicated AT tanks, panthers should be more general purpose with AT leaning idk, probably would need alot of tweaks
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Vipper
17 Mar 2020, 14:12 PM
#29
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Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

The problem starts from the performance of vetted allied TDs. There is little to be done before that issue is addressed.
:)
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Protos Angelus
17 Mar 2020, 16:21 PM
#30
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Posts: 1515

Panthers should not be touched at all, they have HP of Pershing, armour a bit weaker than a pershing, penetration is excellent, speed is excellent (+ blitzkrieg). Axis have enough solutions to any allied tank. And besides, if you see a wall of jackson.... just build infantry...
Most people here like building and spamming one (or 2) unit(s) and when the said units get countered, they complain they are too weak and need buffs. Panther is the best tank currently. Non doctrinal, great stats, super strong for tank hunting with it's speed. I never had any problems playing with panthers vs allied tanks, don't see where the problem is. Tank destroyers destroy tanks, if you have a problem with that, well, tough luck. I literally never had any problems with any unit... except that one time the axis had an elephant and it was supported with infantry and we had nothing to counter it, it was making a slow push with most jackson shells bouncing off it. That was a good play, I lost, big deal.
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Protos Angelus
17 Mar 2020, 16:34 PM
#31
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Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 07:58 AMMr Carmine


So jackons will wipe inf and at guns and shoot down at strafes any day all day?

Lol just joking.


A wall of anything is a guaranteed loss (if the enemy is not a toddler). Offense is the best defense. Enemy spams tank destroyers? You spam infantry. Enemy spams Flaks or something anti infantry? You build a tank with anti tank capabilities. I just love playing against bunker down types. Not so brilliant strategists build bunkers and put MGs in buildings... Say hello to my mortar friend.
Btw. I seldom see Stug not penetrate Pershing and I almost never see Panther bounce off of Pershing. IS-2 has a bit heavier armour but it's also slower than a Pershing which allows easier snaring and destroying it.
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CODGUY
17 Mar 2020, 22:58 PM
#32
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Posts: 888

No, no way two STUGs are as good as one Panther. A Panther has the most perfect balance of speed, armor, and firepower in this game unless you're talking about the doctrinal heavies like Tiger, IS2, and Pershing. It's not the best anti-infantry tank but it does a much better job than a STUG, probably better than two STUGs. The STUGs can be flanked pretty easy, the Panther not so much.
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Serrith
18 Mar 2020, 00:18 AM
#33
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Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 08:07 AMNaOCl

t-34/85 has a fair shot of 1v1ing a panther, if the panther even misses once, which is always does, even stationary.


No, no it does not. The panther has better accuracy than the '85. The panther has a higher rate of fire. The panther has a 100% chance to penetrate the '85 at all ranges. The '85 has a 61% chance to penetrate even at the closest range. The panther is faster than the '85. The panther has more hit points than the 85.

It isnt even a contest between these two tanks. It's like saying ostheer panzer 4 has a fair shot at beating the comet.
Maybe it might if the comet didnt shoot back.
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JibberJabberJobber
18 Mar 2020, 00:25 AM
#34
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Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 00:18 AMSerrith

The panther has a higher rate of fire.


Add wind down, their reload is about equal.
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Serrith
18 Mar 2020, 00:55 AM
#35
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Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 00:25 AMJibberJabberJobber


Add wind down, their reload is about equal.


O whups, my bad.
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Protos Angelus
18 Mar 2020, 09:22 AM
#36
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Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 00:18 AMSerrith


No, no it does not. The panther has better accuracy than the '85. The panther has a higher rate of fire. The panther has a 100% chance to penetrate the '85 at all ranges. The '85 has a 61% chance to penetrate even at the closest range. The panther is faster than the '85. The panther has more hit points than the 85.

It isnt even a contest between these two tanks. It's like saying ostheer panzer 4 has a fair shot at beating the comet.
Maybe it might if the comet didnt shoot back.


Add salt to wound. 85 is a doctrinal tank while Panther isn't. Only way to kill a Panther is through tank destroyers and good management. Of course, if you don't have any doctrinal tanks like E8 or Pershing. Panther is a powerful tank, pricy but honestly, the best medium tank in the game that is non doctrinal. Can take on any tank thanks to it's armour, hp and penetration. All those that are complaining about "accuracy" probably never shot standing still. You know what is not a bad thing to do with panther? Only rotating the hull as the enemy is trying to circle you. Panthers speed both hull and turret can easily prevent any one tank of getting around to hit you behind.
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mrgame2
18 Mar 2020, 10:11 AM
#37
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Posts: 1794

Yes panther is an amazing tank. You just need to play it more conservative. Playing panther and jackson is no different. Dive in, stop shoot and out. Only panther has way more survivability.

Playing jackson is way harder as a TD, i even added the 5% sight add-on. Because it is too fragile. It can be rekt by p4, jp4, puma, shreks.
While panther stand tall against all allies med tank and only troubled by ranger zooks

Hence imo jackson should get sight bonus on vet to bring it fairer to panther
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Jilet
18 Mar 2020, 11:46 AM
#38
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Posts: 556

What this thread is not about buffing the Panther. People just don't get this simply and I started feeling like I wasted my precious time trying to tell/explain something to 75% braindead community of this forum.
Grens are finally good.
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Protos Angelus
18 Mar 2020, 13:50 PM
#39
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Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 11:46 AMJilet
What this thread is not about buffing the Panther. People just don't get this simply and I started feeling like I wasted my precious time trying to tell/explain something to 75% braindead community of this forum.


Your first post states "I came up with this idea: Make Panther 200 DMG with slower rate of fire (like Firefly). So :..."

If that is not a "Buff panther" then I truly am an idiot. You'd give it a huge boost to damage while only taking away 1.6 seconds on the reload. Paired with huge armour and HP (heavy tank-like stats), great speed, great penetration, that 200 damage would wreck all medium tanks. Nothing could stand against it's speed and survivability and hard hitting damage.
You are either proposing a buff to Panther or recoloring of firefly which is by itself the BS "more in line with..." cookie cutting.
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thedarkarmadillo
18 Mar 2020, 15:23 PM
#40
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 13:50 PMProtos Angelus


Your first post states "I came up with this idea: Make Panther 200 DMG with slower rate of fire (like Firefly). So :..."

If that is not a "Buff panther" then I truly am an idiot. You'd give it a huge boost to damage while only taking away 1.6 seconds on the reload. Paired with huge armour and HP (heavy tank-like stats), great speed, great penetration, that 200 damage would wreck all medium tanks. Nothing could stand against it's speed and survivability and hard hitting damage.
You are either proposing a buff to Panther or recoloring of firefly which is by itself the BS "more in line with..." cookie cutting.

200 damage wouldn't change ttk against mediums and only change its effect on premium mediums, heavies and lights. Ironically everything except the thing you are whining about.... Calling them an idiot with that in mind is also quite ironic....
#stalinwept
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