Fallshrims got completely neutered over the years

Falls should never have been this ultra-high-dps quad-BAR 4-man squad anyway. Should have been a utility heavy 5-man stealth unit as I proposed ages ago.

Agreed and I remember that since I +1'd that. I remember something like 5-men commando camo, MP-40, upgradable FG-42s (I might be wrong if that was your suggestion tho).

Completely agree, the overlap between Fallschirmjägers and Obers is criminal, I don’t get why Falls were remade into this WH40K Terminator squad and then had any utility removed to be Obers clones. They even have poison smoke at vet 1 like Obers, it’s absurd. The rework of Falls is definitely one of the worst balance decisions in recent years in the way it was handled.




Learn to read, it’s not about Falls being UP, they are extremely strong, it’s about overlap with Obers and having no role different from them.

Overlap? Since when did obers have camo and ambush bonus?

They took away Faust but made the unit field earlier, so you could argue they diversified it more. Obers don't come that early so you can fit a couple of squads in your build quite easily.

Also AT capability just doesn't fit the role of falls, they were notorious historically for being caught unprepared when something as simple as a Bren carrier turned up in Crete for example. Suffering heavy losses.

Agreed and I remember that since I +1'd that. I remember something like 5-men commando camo, MP-40, upgradable FG-42s (I might be wrong if that was your suggestion tho).

Yeah, that was basically the gist of it.

Yes because falls are definitely terrible right now. Who needs a camouflaged infantry unit with good DPS at all ranges, a snare for some reason, +50% accuracy at vet5 for a-moving, and 2 of the strongest grenades in the game?

Can't read anywhere where people say falls are UP.

Seems to be an identical unit to obers, what is their point?

All building jumping infantry have grenade cooldown start when they spawn. To remove to possibility of 4 Fall/Commando/Partisan from 4 players pop up behind your defensive instantly and destroy the whole flank.

Giving snare to Elite infantry totally break the game design where you can completely replace your core infantry with Elite.
Tell, no one complain about Stormtrooper when they have more raw power than Fall with their tactical assault. Because they dont have snare.

Though remove snare on Fall is not just make them no more spammable, but it remove 25% ability they have. They should give Fall another ability for replacement.

Since Ober is a defensive unit. Fall is behind the line unit. I suggest to give Fall Booby trap, it suit on Fall more than Ober.
Remove Booby trap on Ober and replace with a mine that only triggered by infantry.

Overlap? Since when did obers have camo and ambush bonus?

They took away Faust but made the unit field earlier, so you could argue they diversified it more. Obers don't come that early so you can fit a couple of squads in your build quite easily.

Also AT capability just doesn't fit the role of falls, they were notorious historically for being caught unprepared when something as simple as a Bren carrier turned up in Crete for example. Suffering heavy losses.

That's because in Crete, Fallschirmjäger dropped without guns, most of which were never recovered. Your Bren story is at best anecdotal and at worst completely fabricated.

You should avoid comparing this game to history, especially since you are clearly not well versed in real-life history, you seem to prefer nonobjective and politicised versions of events.

As for the service record of fallschirmjäger units, they performed with distinction outside of the role of paratroopers, throughout the whole war. I would refer you to the service records of the following:-

-Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1. Hermann Göring
-1st Parachute Division
-2nd Parachute Division
-3rd Parachute Division
-4th Parachute Division – included volunteers from the Italian 184th and 185th parachute divisions
-5th Parachute Division
-500th SS Parachute Battalion
-600th SS Parachute Battalion
-Brandenburger Regiment

All were or became Fallschirmjäger divisions that served with distinction, outside of their intended paratroop role. Particularly the Brandenburger Regiments and the 500th SS parachute battalion see [Operation Rösselsprung (1944)].

The problem with their inclusion, is that they are disproportionately involved in massacres of the civilian population, with two divisions accounting for approximately one third of all civilians killed in war crimes in Italy.

Lets let this game be a game and leave historical accuracy to games like steel division. Otherwise we'll have incredibly outnumbered axis armour and soviet tanks that can't hit anything and fail catastrophically when fire is returned upon them.

I am not sure why OKW had both their infiltration unit removed.

I am not sure why OKW had both their infiltration unit removed.

Because cheap cost(JLI) with high long ranged firepower or higher cost with even higher long range firepower do not go well with infiltration unit niche, which is pretty much exclusive short range SMGs.

Or, in short - because we could have OKW infiltration units or balance in game.

Because cheap cost(JLI) with high long ranged firepower or higher cost with even higher long range firepower do not go well with infiltration unit niche, which is pretty much exclusive short range SMGs.

Or, in short - because we could have OKW infiltration units or balance in game.

The theory that infiltration unit can be balanced exclusively for OKW is simply a fabrication.

The theory that infiltration unit can be balanced exclusively for OKW is simply a fabrication.

And assumption the 2 units in question would not lead to only more problems is a delusion.

And assumption the 2 units in question would not lead to only more problems is a delusion.

Why would infiltration units not work for OKW? Please explain elaborately.

Why would infiltration units not work for OKW? Please explain elaborately.

Reread the line you've quoted until you understand it.

Reread the line you've quoted until you understand it.

English is not my first language, obviously.

I will try rewording it for you.

How are stealth units a problem for OKW, yet not for other factions? Please elaborately explain this to me.

Yeah an ober squad with stealth AND first strike that comes at 2 CP and can upgrade without Panzer Authorization. So feelsbadman that I'm uninstalling. It was good while it lasted!

first strike bonus seems bugged to me as i always see vet0 squads with permanent ability enabled

Ok then, I'll repeat it for you specifically:
Not stealth units, long range stealth units, when all others are CQC.

Ok then, I'll repeat it for you specifically:
Not stealth units,0 long range stealth units, when all others are CQC.

More specifically, long range stealth units that have no NEED for stealth and can operate just fine charging across open ground but also happen to have stealth. They aren't ambush units anymore they are ubersoldaten that can, if they so please, ambush to win even harder.

That's because in Crete, Fallschirmjäger dropped without guns, most of which were never recovered. Your Bren story is at best anecdotal and at worst completely fabricated.

You should avoid comparing this game to history, especially since you are clearly not well versed in real-life history, you seem to prefer nonobjective and politicised versions of events.

As for the service record of fallschirmjäger units, they performed with distinction outside of the role of paratroopers, throughout the whole war. I would refer you to the service records of the following:-

-Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1. Hermann Göring
-1st Parachute Division
-2nd Parachute Division
-3rd Parachute Division
-4th Parachute Division – included volunteers from the Italian 184th and 185th parachute divisions
-5th Parachute Division
-500th SS Parachute Battalion
-600th SS Parachute Battalion
-Brandenburger Regiment

All were or became Fallschirmjäger divisions that served with distinction, outside of their intended paratroop role. Particularly the Brandenburger Regiments and the 500th SS parachute battalion see [Operation Rösselsprung (1944)].

The problem with their inclusion, is that they are disproportionately involved in massacres of the civilian population, with two divisions accounting for approximately one third of all civilians killed in war crimes in Italy.

Lets let this game be a game and leave historical accuracy to games like steel division. Otherwise we'll have incredibly outnumbered axis armour and soviet tanks that can't hit anything and fail catastrophically when fire is returned upon them.

I never claimed CoH2 is a simulator, but it is a game with a historical basis. And most units and factions reflect that, EG assault grens getting plenty of MP40's and grenades, mirroring assault groups used in stalingrad where units would muster all the grenades and automatic weapons they could in ragtag order for house to house fighting.

Falls have been given a similar treatment from their original messy design, they only paradrop with half their automatic weaponry. This fits their "historical" role a lot better than being maxxed out terminators teleporting from houses with 4 FG42's and more panzerfausts than you could shake a stick at.

Really maybe it's you that should give reasons why the old house teleporting terminator falls that could magically pop out and snare tanks/wipe MG's are better designed than the present ones. Because I can't really see any apart from "lol OP".

More specifically, long range stealth units that have no NEED for stealth and can operate just fine charging across open ground but also happen to have stealth. They aren't ambush units anymore they are ubersoldaten that can, if they so please, ambush to win even harder.

That is quite irrelevant to the argument, both falls and JLI used to be infiltration units and caused no balance issues.

The choice between "OKW infiltration units or balance in game" is simply fictional.

Falls went from an infiltration and ambush unit to an ober replacement on the frontline.
The previous, glass-cannon design was better at giving them a distinctive role, you had to use them for ambushes to be effective. Now they really do feel like obers with stealth. And I believe it was all done to make the commander 'viable'. A doctrine shouldn't rely this much on a single unti imo, this needs a deeper look.

That is quite irrelevant to the argument, both falls and JLI used to be infiltration units and caused no balance issues.

The choice between "OKW infiltration units or balance in game" is simply fictional.

While they used to be fine, they were rebalanced to be batshit op. Keep in mind the stock okw has effective no weakness mainline AND core elite long range elite infantry so a unit that has infiltration built into its cost can't compete. It's similar to the problem with elite infantry in the usf. It's difficult to make a doctrinal unit that is technically not needed be attractive.

So a balanced infiltration unit will seem worthless (as both jli and falls seemed to the powers that that be)