The T-34 ram + off map is rather easy combo to pull to and it also rather cheesy.
So I would suggested some of following changes:
T-34/85
Ram removed, cap territory replaced by a more interesting ability like a smoke round or a round similar to Pershing.
T-34/76
Ram moved to vet 1 cap territory removed or move to vet 0.
Ability now scale with veterancy.
Possible bonuses, reducing engine overheat chance, immobilize critical replaced with engine damage at vet 3, increase penetration.
Other possible changes:
Stun enemy vehicle only on penetration, timed weapon disable on deflection
Ram replaced with "flank" speed an ability that increases sped of the vehicle on straight line more like a skill shot. At vet 1 replaced by a similar ability that can also ram.
T-34 Ram
3 Mar 2020, 09:39 AM
#1
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
3 Mar 2020, 10:33 AM
#2
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
i'd rather not see ram as one of the very few unique and iconic abilities left in the game being removed. if it is too good or "cheesy" (which is IMHO debatable), it should rather be paired with an additional cost. maybe either by
1) some 30-50 munitions to make the ram-offmap combo more expensive, or
2) by gating it behind a fuel-based unlock for each vehicle to give it some sort of opportunity cost.
1) some 30-50 munitions to make the ram-offmap combo more expensive, or
2) by gating it behind a fuel-based unlock for each vehicle to give it some sort of opportunity cost.
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
3 Mar 2020, 10:38 AM
#3
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
i'd rather not see ram as one of the very few unique and iconic abilities left in the game being removed. if it is too good or "cheesy" (which is IMHO debatable), it should rather be paired with an additional cost. maybe either by
1) some 30-50 munitions to make the ram-offmap combo more expensive, or
2) by gating it behind a fuel-based unlock for each vehicle to give it some sort of opportunity cost.
~300mp and 90 fuel is not high enough cost to use it?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Mar 2020, 10:42 AM
#4
Posts: 810
No
3 Mar 2020, 10:47 AM
#5
Posts: 1273
I'm totally against the homogenization of units. It feels cheesy only to people who do not know the game. I have come to the conclusion to prepare myself for RAM eventualities if i spot the commander on the loading screen and if there is a T34 rushing towards my Panther. You're analytically wrong to want to change it and have no grounding at all.
It is an unique and fun tactic, do not remove it. just prep for it, it's a very desperate and very expensive move.
It is an unique and fun tactic, do not remove it. just prep for it, it's a very desperate and very expensive move.
3 Mar 2020, 10:49 AM
#6
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
~300mp and 90 fuel is not high enough cost to use it?
i'd say the ability is fine as is, but i can speak from a 1v1 perspective only. most complaints seem to come from 2v2 or up, hence the 'debatable' part...
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
3 Mar 2020, 10:50 AM
#7
Posts: 498
One would only ram with a T34/85 if they are really desperate.
3 Mar 2020, 11:03 AM
#8
Posts: 1794
No. It is fun to have. Soviet need good heavy tank counters.
Cost of t34 and muni to spare must come together.
It is not as ez as calling in a Tiger ace or Tiger pazner commander with insane rof and arty.
Cost of t34 and muni to spare must come together.
It is not as ez as calling in a Tiger ace or Tiger pazner commander with insane rof and arty.
3 Mar 2020, 11:04 AM
#9
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
~300mp and 90 fuel is not high enough cost to use it?
Very expensive trade-off indeed:
https://www.twitch.tv/prodigyigi/clip/RefinedPoliteNoodleDendiFace
3 Mar 2020, 11:05 AM
#10
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
i'd say the ability is fine as is, but i can speak from a 1v1 perspective only. most complaints seem to come from 2v2 or up, hence the 'debatable' part...
And in 2v2 and up, its pretty much 100% chance of losing a tank in the process.
I'd say a lot of muni + a tank is fair cost to kill another tank.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Mar 2020, 11:36 AM
#11
Posts: 731
Agree for T34/85,T34/76 no need change，it use for exchange
3 Mar 2020, 11:46 AM
#12
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Very expensive trade-off indeed:
https://www.twitch.tv/prodigyigi/clip/RefinedPoliteNoodleDendiFace
IDK how someone can look at this and think the ability is balanced.
3 Mar 2020, 11:53 AM
#13
Posts: 1273
That guy would have lost the Tiger with or without the ability. The game was as good as over (SU has full map control, and an endgame army popcap army). The Tiger was ambushed, and flanked at the same time. The dude only had PGs to support. Who sends their Tiger on their own to the front???
3 Mar 2020, 12:37 PM
#14
Posts: 808
That guy would have lost the Tiger with or without the ability. The game was as good as over (SU has full map control, and an endgame army popcap army). The Tiger was ambushed, and flanked at the same time. The dude only had PGs to support. Who sends their Tiger on their own to the front???
are u blind? sent on its own to the front? the sov player attacked the tiger, and the tiger was clearly supported, and it got deleted in a matter of seconds, even if it had 5 panthers supporting, it still would have been destroyed. you just seem to be obsessed or have an agenda against vipper, did he steal your girl or something
3 Mar 2020, 12:38 PM
#15
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Very expensive trade-off indeed:
https://www.twitch.tv/prodigyigi/clip/RefinedPoliteNoodleDendiFace
Say your thanks to the balance team. I have suggested a month ago that full health heavy tanks shouldn't be stunned by rams and full health mediums should be stunned for a very short amount of time, but nobody cared.
The bottom line is this: Ram shouldn't work on full health armour.
3 Mar 2020, 12:42 PM
#16
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
are u blind? sent on its own to the front? the sov player attacked the tiger, and the tiger was clearly supported, and it got deleted in a matter of seconds, even if it had 5 panthers supporting, it still would have been destroyed. you just seem to be obsessed or have an agenda against vipper, did he steal your girl or something
Yeah the supporting armies had nothing to do with it. It was between Tiger, T34 and IL2.
3 Mar 2020, 12:49 PM
#17
Posts: 3260
Say your thanks to the balance team. I have suggested a month ago that full health heavy tanks shouldn't be stunned by rams and full health mediums should be stunned for a very short amount of time, but nobody cared.
The bottom line is this: Ram shouldn't work on full health armour.
It's only a viable trade against expensive tanks, and is available in a doctrine that gets no doctrinal armour of its own.
If you Tiger stall against a player playing Soviet Airborne in 1v1, you deserve everything you get.
3 Mar 2020, 12:51 PM
#18
Posts: 1563
The T-34 ram + off map is rather easy combo to pull to and it also rather cheesy.
So I would suggested some of following changes:
T-34/85
Ram remove, cap territory replaced by a more interesting ability like a smoke round or a round similar to Pershing.
T-34/76
Ram moved to vet 1 cap territory removed or move to vet 0. Ability now scale with veterancy.
Possible bonuses, reducing engine overheat chance, immobilize critical replaced with engine damage at vet 3, increase penetration.
Other possible changes:
Stun enemy vehicle only on penetration, timed weapon disable on deflection
Ram replaced with "flank" speed an ability that increases sped of the vehicle on straight line more like a skill shot. At vet 1 replaced by a similar ability that can also ram.
Like why man, why sacrifce the ram at the alter for the crimes of the IL2 AT strafe.
3 Mar 2020, 12:52 PM
#19
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
T-34 ram + ML-20 was the only way to destroy the Elephant. Ramming is a dumb ability now. A game in which saving a unit and getting maximum veteranism for it is one of the key mechanic, we have a mechanic - make suicide for your unit. This is stupid, and therefore the ram theme constantly appears again and again.
- T-34-85 should receive smoke instead of ram. He already has smoke bombs on the tank. And it will not be as strong smoke as German tanks. This smoke is similar to Churchill smoke but without slowing down the speed of the tank. His first veteran is just as stupid, it's more appropriate to give him a subcaliber projectile. It doesn't matter which one shot like Pershing or a few seconds of shooting.
- T-34-76, we say that this tank is flank, but it does not correspond to its role. For the T-34-76, the ability to "fire and maneuver" is increased speed of the tank and the speed of rotation of the turret. This is vital because of the worst armor penetration of the T-34-76.
- T-34-85 should receive smoke instead of ram. He already has smoke bombs on the tank. And it will not be as strong smoke as German tanks. This smoke is similar to Churchill smoke but without slowing down the speed of the tank. His first veteran is just as stupid, it's more appropriate to give him a subcaliber projectile. It doesn't matter which one shot like Pershing or a few seconds of shooting.
- T-34-76, we say that this tank is flank, but it does not correspond to its role. For the T-34-76, the ability to "fire and maneuver" is increased speed of the tank and the speed of rotation of the turret. This is vital because of the worst armor penetration of the T-34-76.
3 Mar 2020, 12:53 PM
#20
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
It's only a viable trade against expensive tanks, and is available in a doctrine that gets no doctrinal armour of its own.
If you Tiger stall against a player playing Soviet Airborne in 1v1, you deserve everything you get.
You completely missed the point. Ram + rockets strafe should be viable and effective, but not a brainless 2 clicks without the opponent having any chance of counterplay. This is why clown car with snipers was killed, because there was no counterplay. Forcing you to first damage a tank before you ram it would allow the opponent to play conservatively and keep his distance to avoid getting rammed.
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