Assault Guards M5 HT

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Let's not derail the thread into a T70 discussion because you're off topic.

Just follow you own advice since you brought up T-70 and not me so technically you're off topic

It hits at a much earlier timing than T3 in 1v1.

It was a joke when it was at CP5, but it got moved to CP3 a couple of patches ago.

If you try to rush out tier 3, it's not that far off from 3cp. Unless the early game is extra bloody I'm usually just about to build tier 3 around the time the guard callin is available.

I'll grab it if I was planning on getting an m5 anyway but otherwise the steep initial cost regardless of the efficiency makes it hard to fit into my builds given how MP intensive soviet early game is.

Looking at how the vote distribution is around 50-50%, I'm starting to like the solution of replacing the M5 HT with an unique vehicle, most likely with the WC-52 dodge truck. Similar to its USF counterpart it would be a pseudo command vehicle, having access to offmap arty which would make it somewhat useful in late game as well. CP should be reduced to 2 and the price of the bundle adjusted to keep the ability balanced.
If the intent is to keep Assault Guards a non spam-able unique CQC unit, something similar to how UKF will be able to train only one Assault Officer, then I can live with it, but offer a vehicle in the bundle that is equally interesting. Currently the bundle feels like that you want to buy Assault Guards, but you are also forced to buy the stock HT too. You may want to have the M5 too sometimes, but not always, the focus is on the guards. With an unique vehicle you might want to have both parts of the bundle equally.

Imo USF M3 is the best candidate for vehicle.

Imo USF M3 is the best candidate for vehicle.

Why? It does nothing the M5 cannot, and soviet frontline halftrack usage as portrayed in this game is already massively unrealistic and not something I think we should be expanding. What unique gameplay, balance, or thematic element does the M3 bring that the WC-51 wouldn't?

And again this topic and again the excuse of stupid design. Yes, the design is unique but this does not justify the fact that it is extremely poorly designed. I personally consider replacing the Assault Guard - one this term is already unhistorical. Either for access to the Allied arms racks (maybe with an overpayment for balance) or give an Assault kit for Conscripts (gives 4 Thompson and replaces Molotov with a grenade) and Bazooka upgrade for Penalties (replacing PTRS kit)

Why? It does nothing the M5 cannot, and soviet frontline halftrack usage as portrayed in this game is already massively unrealistic and not something I think we should be expanding. What unique gameplay, balance, or thematic element does the M3 bring that the WC-51 wouldn't?

Do I have to describe what the M3 can do?

Do I have to describe what the M3 can do?

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It is a halftrack, like the M5. It costs marginally less manpower, but lacks any sort of combat upgrade and is no more durable than the M5 (it actually has less armor). The only advantage offered is a single additional space in the passenger compartment for a soldier to shoot from compared to the M5.

Yes, I think you do have to describe what exactly the M3 would bring to the table here. I am not following your train of thought at all here.

The benefit SHOULD be that they can upgrade with 2 elite zooks for 100mu OR 4x tommies for 90mu, and spawn with 6 SVTs. In my humble opinion

Makes them unique while being in theme to the commander

That would have been great. But AssGuards get 3 M1928 tho. 4 'assault rifle-alike' SMGs is way too much for a squad with 27MP reinforce and the doctrine with decent medium armor.

Although I'm kind of curious how in theory Ostheer would deal this doc. M4C decimates P4 and AssGuard does the same to infantry at much further effective range then shocks do.

Do I have to describe what the M3 can do?

Yes.
What do M3 do that M5 can't? Outside of not being able to upgrade into anything and being able to be penetrated by small arms fire.

If you want to call in several squads of elite CQC troops, Shocks are better.

What's the benefit of making Assault Guards just another CQC squad? Is it worth the cost of killing off a now fairly unique mechanic and playstyle?

But shocks are not in this doctrine, ass guards are. Shocks have armour and ass guards do not which nmakes them easier to squish in where shocks would be OP, like they would be alomg side the m4c and DSHK...

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It is a halftrack, like the M5. It costs marginally less manpower, but lacks any sort of combat upgrade and is no more durable than the M5 (it actually has less armor). The only advantage offered is a single additional space in the passenger compartment for a soldier to shoot from compared to the M5.

Yes, I think you do have to describe what exactly the M3 would bring to the table here. I am not following your train of thought at all here.

The m3 has the "medical supplies" ability which M5 does not. I can provide both reinforcement and healing and since there are allot of people complaining about soviet healing it M3 would be unique and useful.

Yes.
What do M3 do that M5 can't? Outside of not being able to upgrade into anything and being able to be penetrated by small arms fire.

I suggest you install the game and check for yourself.

The m3 has the "medical supplies" ability which M5 does not. I can provide both reinforcement and healing and since there are allot of people complaining about soviet healing it M3 would be unique and useful.

The USF M3 sounds interesting too with it's healing capacity, but it would be guaranteed to pretty much lock assault guard amount to 1 per game. At least with the current M5 HTs you can keep one for reinforcing and convert the rest to quads.
I still say the WC-51 is a better choice if we are going for the replacement solution.

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I still say the WC-51 is a better choice if we are going for the replacement solution.

WC51 is broken and should nerfed.

Actually making all bundle HT call-in come with unique passenger and allowing them to built separately from HQ after T4 can keep the ability useful for the duration of the game.

WC51 is broken and should nerfed.

The WC-51's balance belongs to a separate thread, tho I must add this WC would arrive only at CP 2 or 3, already having a setback compared to the USF WC.
The point is that the bundle with the WC would be cheaper, more unique (as we no longer get a stock unit) and would hold more late game utility with munition investment.

The WC-51's balance belongs to a separate thread, tho I must add this WC would arrive only at CP 2 or 3, already having a setback compared to the USF WC.

Both abilities of WC "mark target" and "off map" should simply be removed from vehicle. Then the would be no point in it.

The point is that the bundle with the WC would be cheaper, more unique (as we no longer get a stock unit) and would hold more late game utility with munition investment.

But shocks are not in this doctrine, ass guards are. Shocks have armour and ass guards do not which nmakes them easier to squish in where shocks would be OP, like they would be alomg side the m4c and DSHK...

If you want spammable CQC troops, you can pick a Shock doctrine, a PPSh doctrine, Soviet Airborne, you don't lack for options.

If you want the CP3 Meat Chopper bundle, you pick Lend Lease.

Change the transport from M5 to WC51 and fix the price.

DO IT!

If you want spammable CQC troops, you can pick a Shock doctrine, a PPSh doctrine, Soviet Airborne, you don't lack for options.

If you want the CP3 Meat Chopper bundle, you pick Lend Lease.

You are missing the point of what im saying. Ass guards are neat. Id like to use them more but dont want to pop cap out by having a hoard of m5s. It would be neat if after unlocked i could get this neat doctrinal unit without the fuel cost and inclusion of a very accessible stock unit.

As for overlap, these guards are different than shocks in ability,skin and vet. They fill a sinilar role but are different which is not a unique thing to the soviet.

Having a unit that is effectively a one off shhould at least have nore synergy with the bundle. If they are to remain hard linked id like to see more out of the halftrack itself if not guards as well.
A squishier halftrack wouldnt be an issue either if it had more support ability than the standard stock HT. it IS taking up a whole commander slot... perhaps the repair halftrack from ardennes assault (i know there is already con repair but again, similar but different) or med kits or even the brit weapon drop HT (tuned turned heavily for the soviet perhaps with a heafty muni increase that would compete with the fuel drop for resources)

I guess what im saying is despite its impact at its timing, being forved to buy a standard stock vehcle with a unique infantry unit is kinda shitty. The bundle would be more palpable if it was both unique units and arguable more balanced as the kraut mower is bullet proof and quite strong.

Assault guard needs smoke grenade

M5 is not problem