Elite Panzerschreck

Alright, the elite PIAT thread motivated me to throw this idea into the room that has been floating around a while (note ahead: I'm discussing performance against mediums for the most part here):

Panzerschrecks are good when there are at least two of them around (see Panzergrenadiere and Panzerfüsiliere, who both get two Schrecks). Reason for that is the reliable pen against Allied stock armor and the high alpha damage (120 dmg/shot). So normally an Allied tank can eat the first salvo, but getting hit by the second salvo will become a huge gamble. If every shot hits, your tank has 160 health left. So an unsuspected ATG shot or other tank could take out your medium instantly.
Therefore you usually have to pull back your tank after the first salvo.

The biggest disadvantage of a Schreck is the long reload. The overall DPS is higher than for bazookas or PIATs (afaik), but your squad will get focused during that time.

Now a single Schreck is usually quite shit. Reason for that is that even if the first shot hits, the enemy tank can still take 4 shots from a ATG/other tank (not considering snares though). So in order to do anything, the squad MUST hit the second time, which brings the number of needed hits from other sources down to 3. Your overall benefit is not really high to be honest.
Combine that with the long reload: You get a squad that in order to achieve anything MUST hit two times, has no high alpha damage and will just bleed MP while trying to fight the tank. If the second salvo misses then good luck, you have gotten nothing. But even if it hits, the threat for the Allied tank is not too big. The single Schreck can sometimes tip the balance in a heated battle, but that's it.

On top of that, the squads that get single Schrecks are (maybe I have forgotten one) OKWs Sturmpioniere, OSTs Sturmtruppen and SOVs AT Partisans. All 4 men squads, two of which have actually an AI focus and high reinforcement cost.

They don't function well with a single Schreck. On the other hand, giving them two might cause other problems.

So my suggestions:
Give an elite Panzerschreck with lower reload time. Buffing damage to 160 would likely be a huge issue, buffing pen would be mostly useless since they already pen most of their targets with 100%. Buffing the reload time would increase the DPS and enable them to be a bigger theat in sustained fights without increasing the alpha damage.

What do you think?

Yep, thats a pretty good idea

Cant think of anything better

Didn't read, suggestion to buff Pschreck is non-historical and goes against game balance. No.

I thought panzershreck is already elite panzershreck, considering stats vs any other handheld AT weapon in game. Also, what would happen if they were to drop it? Wouldn't better solution be to tailor vet bonuses to support the weapon better, like guards have/used to have 10% increased pen for PTRS?

I thought panzershreck is already elite panzershreck, considering stats vs any other handheld AT weapon in game.

Nice derail attempt, unfortunately you logically failed.

Not a bad idea, and it's not like we'll ever see schreck stormtrooper or schreck sturm blobs/spam becoming an issue anytime soon. Meanwhile USF gets elite bazookas and can have 3 on rangers so single elite schrecks seems fair at the very least lol.

Didn't read, suggestion to buff Pschreck is non-historical and goes against game balance. No.

What? Zooks and schrecks could potentially 1 shot tanks IRL and ingame there's no chance of that. Historical accuracy means very little when regarding balance.

@OP Not bad idea, I'd still like to see 2x schrecks on sturms.

What? Zooks and schrecks could potentially 1 shot tanks IRL and ingame there's no chance of that. Historical accuracy means very little when regarding balance.

@OP Not bad idea, I'd still like to see 2x schrecks on sturms.

Don't mind him, he's just trolling.

I also thought about 2 Schrecks for Sturmpios, but not sure how well it would turn out. Closest equivalent would be Panzergrenadiere (similar price, range optimum, no camo).
So they'd cost 40 MP less but also bleed less. No bundle nade. But a ton of utility (mines, repairs, barbed wire, vet stun grenade etc).

Depending on timing it could also completely shut down SOV Scout car play for good or bad.

Hard to tell if two Schrecks fit well or if they're a bit too strong. Would need to be tested. But on the other hand the upgrade has to offer something due to the no-brainer minesweeper.

Didn't read, suggestion to buff Pschreck is non-historical and goes against game balance. No.

would you please stop your bias and do something everyone here do, that is READING?
And cut the BS and the PTSD, you can simply DISLIKE it.

The OP is actually pretty good idea.

add: Im kind of inclined to 2x Shreks on Spios like Shadowlink but the OP sounds very good.

What? Zooks and schrecks could potentially 1 shot tanks IRL and ingame there's no chance of that. Historical accuracy means very little when regarding balance.

They also usually needed more than 1 person per launcher in order to be used efficiently. If tanks weren't so good against infantry I think it would be cool if they factored that into the game

Like everytime it fires one model stops fighting and helps the guy reload. Maybe for coh3! +1 to OPs idea

I'd be happier giving Sturmpios an elite shreck if it took T4 set up for them to buy it. An early elite shreck would be a bit too hard on LV play, IMO.

At which point they lose the early elite shreck. Could it be made so T4 unlocks the passive that gives them better shreck stats?

Elite bazookas are already stupid, and if they are a balance issue than they should be removed and/or bazookas themselves rebalanced well before ever considering to make a buffed Panzershrek (which would be the single most potent concentrated infantry AT source ingame).

Hard categorical no.

i actually like the suggestion of the OP, the only thing that can be changed is reload though, dmg is a big no since alpha strike isnt the problem. I woudnt mind if it only took 3/4ish of the reload of a normal schreck.

Would hardly break the game and make those single schreck units more appealing, though i still probably wont use them giving how situational schreck is in the first place

Maybe could for StormTrooper and be a commander ability for Ober

Elite schreck just sounds wrong. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I do schreck blobs and I like schreks over any other AT guns, but there is no need for an elite version, it is already very good.
As for the 3 squad that has a single schreck:
-The AT partisans have snare too! They are supposed to damage enough the medium tank with their schreck so that their snare damages the engine.
-Sturmpios and Sturmtroops are both close range AI squad, and even with 3/4 of their fireprower they are still quite decent at it to my experience, so the AT gun is just a bonus. Sturmtroops also have camo for free and get vehicle detection as well, providing extra indirect AT support. (70 muni on the sturmpio combat package for the extra winter coat is just stupid tho...)

SP shreck would see more use if it not locked down the minesweeper. You could remove some of the features that provides the sweeper when upgraded with the shreck as well.

For ST, a faster reload could work.

Partisans need a rework in general.

-Sturmpios and Sturmtroops are both close range AI squad, and even with 3/4 of their fireprower they are still quite decent at it to my experience, so the AT gun is just a bonus. Sturmtroops also have camo for free and get vehicle detection as well, providing extra indirect AT support. (70 muni on the sturmpio combat package for the extra winter coat is just stupid tho...)

Storm troopers AI suck when they have a Shreck.

You forgot the "to my experience" part...

You forgot the "to my experience" part...

3 grenadier K98 or 3 MP-40 have little DPS, I am simply point out that "your experience" is not supported by stats.