Why does rak need retreat?

Apart from the fact that it has no gun shield, the worst possible crew clustering, shorter range, slow projectile speed, issues with elevation, and poor aim time/tracking stats?

The fact that OKW would be hyper vulnerable to ultra lights if the raketen didn't have retreat.

That was specifically (added and) removed a long time ago. Which was arguably a net nerf, because HMGs deal way more damage to targets they can't suppress.

Doesn't being suppressed also reduce outgoing accuracy though? I'd rather stop the Rak in it's tracks AND make sure it's gonna miss than do more damage and let it get off another shot

Hmm did they fixed Propaganda forcing AT guns to retreat?

No that's still in the game but that doesn't really apply to what I'm talking about. Having the ability to choose to retreat =/= you can only retreat when a specific ability gets called on you by your opponent

Doesn't being suppressed also reduce outgoing accuracy though? I'd rather stop the Rak in it's tracks AND make sure it's gonna miss than do more damage and let it get off another shot

As far as I know suppression does not give accuracy penalties, only cooldown/reload penalties.

So suppression would only affect the follow up shots. But then so would the gunners getting sniped by an HMG dealing full damage. With a good chance to decrew the gun entirely in seconds. An HMG suppressing the crew would make them more resistant to incoming damage which would make them even harder to force off or kill.

As far as I know suppression does not give accuracy penalties, only cooldown/reload penalties.

So suppression would only affect the follow up shots. But then so would the gunners getting sniped by an HMG dealing full damage. With a good chance to decrew the gun entirely in seconds. I'd personally rather take the latter (if it was my HMG).

Huh I remember hearing from more than 1 caster that it reduced accuracy too, but my bad

I mean if it can retreat anyway though I don't see what extra damage gets me. If I stop it from moving towards it's target it's gonna retreat too, and it'll get suppressed faster than it gets killed

Does suppression effect aim-time at all? I feel like I see MGs bug out a bit everytime they get suppressed

Since there are vehicles that can suppress and some of them one the move the RW should not be able to suppressed.

In addition it vet bonuses need to be looked at.

Finally it should require truck to be set up before becoming available same as HMG (and faust should require truck being built).

In the game, rak feel much better than other AT weapons. Can other AT weapons shoot at their full range? (60). After all there is a fog of war. I would like American M1 to reduce the range to 55, but give the same penetration and 5 people, like a rocket. Because m1 always needs to be fed with muni, otherwise it may not even penetrate the panzer.

Because Rak not have green shield

The Raketenwerfer only needs 4 men and no moving cloak, that's it. They didn't need to make all these dumb changes to it.

The gun shield is bugged beyond repair on all ATG. Its a non factor.

The gun shield is bugged beyond repair on all ATG. Its a non factor.

nope it works for explosive and tank shot damage just not rifle

nope it works for explosive and tank shot damage just not rifle

Source?

In the game, rak feel much better than other AT weapons. Can other AT weapons shoot at their full range? (60)..

Can the Jackson fire at its full range? Doesn’t have 60 sight after all.

Source?

50% of the time it works 50% of the time.

Too keep some fucking assymetry in the game

Its not like its unfair or causes imbalance

#saynotofurthermirroring

+1

I do think that 5 man is weird, but i would like it to be 4 man with vet0 camo

The gun shield is bugged beyond repair on all ATG. Its a non factor.

Even though gun shields don't work like they should, they do give green cover -50% damage reduction against explosives like grenades under certain circumstances (see below). Gun shield green cover on normal ATGs also means that their crew ignores terrain cover and that the extra models usually keep good spacing, while the Raketen's crew will usually bunch up on terrain cover and becomes more vulnerable to AOE weapons. It is a factor.

Jump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:06 PMelchino7

Cheese news: the fact that you couldn't kill the AT gun is because you are aiming at either the middle or one of the models in specific. And the Rifle nade having a smaller lethal radius.

Even when the cover shield appear, i could 100% kill AT guns with Rifle grenades, by aiming at the model who fires (not the loader).

ATGs do give green cover damage reduction against AOE weapons under certain circumstances. I think it has to do with the direction the grenade is fired from, as normally that influences whether or not damage reduction is applied or not (as green cover damage reduction is directional), combined with the wonky circumstances under which a gun shield seems to give cover or not.

#1 aiming directly for gunner model


#2 firing from the gun's left side results in a lethal hit


#3 firing from the gun's right side results in a non lethal hit


So in any case, my claim was that

Jump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 21:24 PMSander93

gunshields […] do generally provide the -50% green cover damage reduction against explosions.

and that is proven true (though perhaps generally is a bit of an overstatement, as I haven't tested every single angle, but they at least sometimes provide green cover bonuses) based on these tests (-78hp health damage to the squad while hitting at least two models must mean the grenade did -50% damage).


Furthermore, I said:

Jump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 21:24 PMSander93

And the Raketen does neither of those things.

Which is proven by replicating the exact same tests with the Raketen, in which no matter the direction it was fired from, the grenade scored a lethal hit on both gunner models:





So back to my original point, regular anti-tank guns do seem to offer the crew at least some protection against various enemy weapons even though the results vary wildly, but the Raketen never seems to provide any protection under any circumstances. So personally, based on these test results, I think it's fair that the Raketen can have a 5th crewman - partly - to compensate for the lack of a gunshield.

Gun shields help all the time with absorbing tank shots, it's a big factor.

Too keep some fucking assymetry in the game

Its not like its unfair or causes imbalance

#saynotofurthermirroring

Sounds fair.

I paid money to play coh2 and not StarCraft 2

Another thing worth noting is that the current camo implementation is bad.

Many user do not even use camo on the RW due to micro taxing and unintended behavior.

Source?

what sander just posted + they can absorb tank shoot (it happen with SU 120 mm mortar too, they absorb enemy mortar shoots and tank projectiles cause of their hit box)

puppchen does not have this feature (cause i think it lacks real model when is manned)

Can the Jackson fire at its full range? Doesn’t have 60 sight after all.

Axis fans have only Jackson on their minds. You probably see the M36 in a dream. More precisely, in nightmares. Why did you remember Jackson again?

m1 there is no need and has 60 range, having such a terrible penetration. When there is no guarantee that it will hit even Panzer 4. Therefore, I would prefer to have a copy of the rak.

And the gun would still be more useful, because:
1) It can enter the building
2) Can go back to the base
3) Has camouflage on the first vet.
4) It is located in t0. (A very important parameter, because it’s enough to build only one headquarters later to have AT weapons and MG at the same time, the American needs to build two headquarters for this, because in t0 they have the worst mortar in the game, although it had to be the best because you have to fight mg42)
5) Has 5 people
6) The rak has a target size of 10, others has 20.


Feature m1 remained only (With a range of 55 and penetration like rak)
1) A wider angle of fire.

Such a difference in features certainly indicates a lack of impartiality on the balance team. Yes, and as far as I know, the relic itself has long forgotten this game, and handed it over to axis lovers.

Well, army of axis fans, attack me now and say I'm wrong. I will defend myself with the three units you hate, Jackson, Scott, and the Pack Howitzer.