It is a well known problem (or bug) the USF cheesy abuse of the pop cap, just decrewing their tanks. It is not uncommon to see a 140 popcap on a USF game on 3v3 or 4v4.
An easy way to solve this problem is to deny the recrew on tanks if the player is above 100 pop cap.
USF pop cap problem
30 Jan 2020, 11:06 AM
#1
Posts: 311
30 Jan 2020, 11:10 AM
#2
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
If it was me balancing I’d stop all manpower income when a faction has over 110 pop cap.
30 Jan 2020, 12:20 PM
#4
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Increase pop cap of tank crews so the difference between tank and crew is smaller?
30 Jan 2020, 12:24 PM
#5
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Increase pop cap of tank crews so the difference between tank and crew is smaller?
That is a better solution, but it will probably need to add a "remove from the battle field" option for crews so that one does not have "suicide" them.
30 Jan 2020, 12:31 PM
#6
Posts: 1273
I don't think this is a problem at all - most people who faces this issue are campers who sit behind a wall of units camping and do absolutely nothing to get the much needed push for a win. just don't camp!
30 Jan 2020, 12:42 PM
#7
2 Posts: 538
You can easily solve this problem by not being a fucking camper against USF and actually engaging in combat to generate attrition instead of sitting there behind elephant, doing absolutely nothing despite being maxed pop already.
totally agreed
Greetings from Nürnberg - always happy to increase our local COH pool for local events - more glory: Rankade ladder
30 Jan 2020, 12:58 PM
#8
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
It doesn't only effect campers. It effects lots of late-game teamgames including 2v2.
The extra pop that you can use to squeeze in one more Jackson/Scott/pershing/calliope can make a huge difference. When Axis has around 90 pop cap they can't get another vehicle but USF can for no apparent reason. Why not fix this? It's not fair or intended.
If you pretend this is just an issue effecting "campers" you are just ignorant. Obviously if the USF player isn't playing well and losing all his units all the time this is a non-issue, I am talking about players with good unit preservation that don't get outplayed all the time.
And I personally remember a lot of games in 2v2 that were basically won by USF flexible pop cap. Just because it's next to impossible to counter 2-3 Jacksons + Pershing/Calliope + 2 Scotts + bar blobs with 100 pop cap axis armies.
The extra pop that you can use to squeeze in one more Jackson/Scott/pershing/calliope can make a huge difference. When Axis has around 90 pop cap they can't get another vehicle but USF can for no apparent reason. Why not fix this? It's not fair or intended.
If you pretend this is just an issue effecting "campers" you are just ignorant. Obviously if the USF player isn't playing well and losing all his units all the time this is a non-issue, I am talking about players with good unit preservation that don't get outplayed all the time.
And I personally remember a lot of games in 2v2 that were basically won by USF flexible pop cap. Just because it's next to impossible to counter 2-3 Jacksons + Pershing/Calliope + 2 Scotts + bar blobs with 100 pop cap axis armies.
30 Jan 2020, 13:03 PM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It doesn't only effect campers. It effects lots of late-game teamgames including 2v2.
The extra pop that you can use to squeeze in one more Jackson/Scott/pershing/calliope can make a huge difference. When Axis has around 90 pop cap they can't get another vehicle but USF can for no apparent reason. Why not fix this? It's not fair or intended.
If you pretend this is just an issue effecting "campers" you are just ignorant. Obviously if the USF player isn't playing well and losing all his units all the time this is a non-issue, I am talking about players with good unit preservation that don't get outplayed all the time.
And I personally remember a lot of games in 2v2 that were basically won by USF flexible pop cap. Just because it's next to impossible to counter 2-3 Jacksons + Pershing/Calliope + 2 Scotts + bar blobs with 100 pop cap axis armies.
It also cripples your mp income to the point, where you need a minute to reinforce fully a rifle squad.
2v2 or 4v4, there are exclusively 2 situations where that happens.
1) Aforementioned mexican standoff.
2) A stomp, where opponent doesn't know when to quit.
In literally any other situation, you will never have enough mp due to constant contesting of VPs to stockpile enough for extra vehicle through overpop.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Jan 2020, 13:54 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
If it was me balancing I’d stop all manpower income when a faction has over 110 pop cap.
Any popcap above 100 could get an exponential grow by 10 increment in pop. 2x, 3x the rate per popcap value abouve it. Or basically an extra penalty for easier implementation at certain thresholds.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
30 Jan 2020, 16:38 PM
#11
Posts: 2358
I don't think this is a problem at all - most people who faces this issue are campers who sit behind a wall of units camping and do absolutely nothing to get the much needed push for a win. just don't camp!
Are you really justifying a cheese mechanic? Such a low key man!
Then you should be pretty fine with the IRHT map hack,oh wait that got fixed already.
30 Jan 2020, 17:16 PM
#12
Posts: 311
I don't think this is a problem at all - most people who faces this issue are campers who sit behind a wall of units camping and do absolutely nothing to get the much needed push for a win. just don't camp!
It is not a camping issue. It is a game mechanic failure that should be addressed.
In 4v4 long games it is super common to see USF players abusing this issue.
30 Jan 2020, 18:24 PM
#13
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Are you really justifying a cheese mechanic? Such a low key man!
Then you should be pretty fine with the IRHT map hack,oh wait that got fixed already.
People in this community are allergic to cheese. Cheese is not bad.
Maphack issues are a bug which is a complete different issue.
There are 2 approaches to the issue. One of them is making the crew have a higher popcap but letting USF player somehow retreat the units from the field freeing the popcap or penalising throught upkeep, popcap over 100 more harshly.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
30 Jan 2020, 20:32 PM
#14
Posts: 960
Yea, this is a pretty clear 'unintended side-effect' type issue. It should've been addressed ages ago, as it makes pop-cap changes on USF tanks basically pointless.
Either of these ideas seem good to me; not sure how hard it would be to implement, though.
Increase pop cap of tank crews so the difference between tank and crew is smaller?
Any popcap above 100 could get an exponential grow by 10 increment in pop. 2x, 3x the rate per popcap value abouve it. Or basically an extra penalty for easier implementation at certain thresholds.
Either of these ideas seem good to me; not sure how hard it would be to implement, though.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
30 Jan 2020, 20:50 PM
#15
Posts: 403
Relic has confirmed that this is intended years ago. Why is this still debated?
My place in the ladder is irrelevant as long as I am matched with opponents of the same rank and play all factions (balance at place 1000+ is no different from balance in top 100 if we consider what I said before the brakets) so I don't care about your assertion which is also irrelevant.
30 Jan 2020, 20:56 PM
#16
Posts: 785
Vehicle crews were a bad idea in the first place tbh.
30 Jan 2020, 21:46 PM
#17
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Relic has confirmed that this is intended years ago. Why is this still debated?
Unintended effect for how vehicle crew mechanic works.
Why is still debated? Well because after years, there are things which are still been fixed (see Cooldown on call in vehicles starting when they die or UHU truck)
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
1 Feb 2020, 03:00 AM
#18
Posts: 789
Just because Relic intended it doesn’t mean it isn’t un fun. After all they “intended” original OPW team game cancer, usf pop cap abuse is in the same vein
It isn’t fun or fair to fight an enemy with 40% more troops than you. The point of the game is to be fun, and to be fun it has to be fair, correct?
It isn’t fun or fair to fight an enemy with 40% more troops than you. The point of the game is to be fun, and to be fun it has to be fair, correct?
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
1 Feb 2020, 04:28 AM
#19
Posts: 1794
Vehicle crews were a bad idea in the first place tbh.
It is good idea. We should reward trying new ideas.
It is just that Usf got buffed and changed and buffed. While axis get nerfed and changed and nerfed.
Vehicle crew became a problem as it added to Usf cost effectiveness
3 Feb 2020, 12:33 PM
#20
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
It is a well known problem (or bug) the USF cheesy abuse of the pop cap, just decrewing their tanks. It is not uncommon to see a 140 popcap on a USF game on 3v3 or 4v4.
An easy way to solve this problem is to deny the recrew on tanks if the player is above 100 pop cap.
Relic has confirmed that this is intended years ago. Why is this still debated?
* Correct. Relic has confirmed that this is intended. It is NOT unintended.
* Balanced team addressed this already.
- Tank crew was same as tank (so 12 crew pop, and 12 for the tank)
- Relic stepped in and forcibly reversed the change. It was in one of those
"Pre-patch mods" Mr.Smith, MirageFla and another person were making them.
Relic specifically said the USF popcap swap dynamic is intended in how USF work.
Also discussed was adding pop to MG-bunkers (6 per MG add-on)(Wehr and OKW)
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
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