COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

Quick question. How much munitions will the weapon drop donate to teammate/enemy when picked up? In soviet airborne commander. 60?

Quick question. How much munitions will the weapon drop donate to teammate/enemy when picked up? In soviet airborne commander. 60?

Should be 60 now.

Soviets can equip dual bar rifles twice as fast.

The Commando Glider Insertion will probably get merged with the Forward Logistics Glider. I.e., they will become the same ability where a Commando squad can be called in by glider for 390mp and then an additional upgrade will unlock the FHQ abilities.

The split was done so that Commandos become easier to get, so that players who don't want the FHQ stuff don't have to pay a premium just to get the squad. And so that players who do want the FHQ don't get bundle that's too cheap (as was the case in v1).

Will see if its possible to make the glider repairable.

Are you sure about this?

Combining the abilities is effectively giving Commando Glider Insertion to Vanguard Regiment.

Commando Glider Insertion is largely balanced out by how lackluster the rest of Commando Regiment is. If you give it to Vanguard, you risk turning UKF into a one commander faction. Even if you don't, it'll kill Commando Regiment stone dead.

Are you sure about this?

Combining the abilities is effectively giving Commando Glider Insertion to Vanguard Regiment.

Commando Glider Insertion is largely balanced out by how lackluster the rest of Commando Regiment is. If you give it to Vanguard, you risk turning UKF into a one commander faction. Even if you don't, it'll kill Commando Regiment stone dead.

An important distinction is that Commando Glider allows you to reinforce in enemy territory. It's worth keeping the distinction between the two if anything to allow Commando to keep it's identity as the aggressive commander for Brits. I suppose you could give the Commando glider some additional bonus if it needs something to be competitive like ability to air drop medical supplies to support enemy territory attacks.

An important distinction is that Commando Glider allows you to reinforce in enemy territory. It's worth keeping the distinction between the two if anything to allow Commando to keep it's identity as the aggressive commander for Brits. I suppose you could give the Commando glider some additional bonus if it needs something to be competitive like ability to air drop medical supplies to support enemy territory attacks.

I think it's much more important to not give cheap on-field Commando Glider drops to Vanguard Regiment in the first place. It's already got Raid, Vehicle Crew Repairs, a set of skillplanes and a Crocodile.

The HQ Glider worked because it was painfully expensive and gave the relatively lackluster Airlanding Officer first.

I think the HQ Glider should be just that: an airdropped FRP with medics. Maybe let it build Commandos when in friendly territory, but it absolutely should not become Commando Glider Insertion if we want to maintain UKF's commander diversity.

If you replace Vanguard's only weak link with UKF's most meta commander ability you'll never see anything else.

Will see if its possible to make the glider repairable.

All Units mod has repairable gliders (and whole bunch of other nifty things) so it's deffinitely possible.

I think the HQ Glider should be just that: an airdropped FRP with medics. Maybe let it build Commandos when in friendly territory, but it absolutely should not become Commando Glider Insertion if we want to maintain UKF's commander diversity.

If you replace Vanguard's only weak link with UKF's most meta commander ability you'll never see anything else.

What would such a FRP + Medic glider cost you think: 200, 250, 300, 350 manpower?

I liked Vipper's idea of allowing it to build Mortars and AT Commando squads with elite Piats, instead of normal Commando squads (which would risk what you mentioned). Not sure if anything else would have to be added to that.

What would such a FRP + Medic glider cost you think: 200, 250, 300, 350 manpower?

I liked Vipper's idea of allowing it to build Mortar squads and AT Commando squads with buffed elite Piats, instead of normal Commando squads (which would risk what you mentioned).

I'm not keen on giving Vanguard other commanders' toys. Even if you removed the glider entirely and made it a four ability commander, it'd still be really good.

Commando AT squads are better Tank Hunter Sections, and who's going to go Tactical Support if the Glider can build mortars?

I'm not keen on giving Vanguard other commanders' toys. Even if you removed the glider entirely and made it a four ability commander, it'd still be really good.

Commando AT squads are better Tank Hunter Sections, and who's going to go Tactical Support if the Glider can build mortars?

Maye then one should swap the glider from the "commando commander" and HQ and make the HQ a better option in the "weaker" commander.

I'm not keen on giving Vanguard other commanders' toys. Even if you removed the glider entirely and made it a four ability commander, it'd still be really good.

Commando AT squads are better Tank Hunter Sections, and who's going to go Tactical Support if the Glider can build mortars?

How about letting it arrive at a high 540~ mp cost with a Commando squad, FRP and reinforcing, but removing the possibility to make units from it? The glider would be more cost effective than in the live game (Commando's are worth more than the Airborne Officer), while not allowing more Commando's to be made.

Remove the option for Commandos altogether. Vanguard shouldn’t have Commandos AND Croc AND Air Supremacy AND FRP and medics and reinforce glider.

How about letting it arrive at a high 540~ mp cost with a Commando squad, FRP and reinforcing, but removing the possibility to make units from it? The glider would be more cost effective than in the live game (Commando's are worth more than the Airborne Officer), while not allowing more Commando's to be made.

Personally? I'd just scrap it at this point.

Everything but the Commandos are stock now: UKF's got medics on the Forward Assembly and their base, and the Airlanding Officer is nondoctrinal.

I'd just give them the Infiltration Commandos ability instead and be done with it.

Completely agree with removing commandos from Vanguard. If there's commando's in Vanguard there's almost no other point for other british doctrines.

Mobile Assault: Commando and Rocket Arty

Commando doctrine: Commandos and a lot of munition abilities.

Vanguard with Winter Preview patch: Commando, FRP, Croc, skill planes, NOT TO MENTION ALSO RAID AND REPAIR.

Vanguard is already the best overall brit doctrine there is absolutely no reason to jack it up the powerlevel even more.

Instead of buffing Vanguard there's a lot of other doctrine that need a bit of love. How about looking at COmmand vehicle to buff Royal Enigeer and Tatical support? Or reworking Hold the line and AT sections to buff Special weapons (which should be the quentissential Croc doctrine tbh idk why the croc is being inserted into every doctrine possible)

I fear the brits meta won't change at all if these changes go through and end us with a selection of 50% Vanguard pick and 35% lend lease pick. 15% Royal Engineer pick.

Remove the option for Commandos altogether. Vanguard shouldn’t have Commandos AND Croc AND Air Supremacy AND FRP and medics and reinforce glider.

Brit already have FRP and medic with forward HQ

When top players play OKW, I often see them buy a P4 over a panther, even if they have the fuel for a panther. As ost people buy even less panthers because you have to pay even more.

I understand above concerns about vanguard become too strong but still, i like the ideal of merging commando glider and HQ glider.

So, now, we have an glider come with a commando squad, can built more commando and also can upgrade medic/FRP. if only one out of two Commander can have it then i will put that thing in commando regiment.

The empty slot in vanguard can be fill by assault sections or recon sections.

Thematically I'd be okay if the Glider came with the scrapped Recon Section that's in the cheat mod. You'd definitely want to tweak it to make it useful (more work than it's worth?). But it would fit as a unit in the "advance force" theme of the commander. This is especially true if the balance team decides to remove the extra sight from Pyrotechnics upgrade where Recon would become more valuable.

I see 3 options here:

Merge both abilities and Remove it from Vanguard would be 1 solution. In free slot put new content.

Second is keep Glider but without commando squad inside and only as HQ. Gives healing, reinfocing power and retreat position.

Third is to focus more on a possibility to produce stuff. Aside of point nr 2 it could also allow brits to build mortars and mgs (buffed vickers or 0,50 cal) with commando crew. We gain option for better, more durable weaponteam. More options to give UKF access to call mobile indirect fire or any other stuff that faction lacks.

As many other said before, free commando squad in Glider HQ cannot stay in already powerfull Vanguard commander - especially not for 390 MP.

PS: can we consider a new vet 1 ability for Tank Hunter Section? And why an extra weapon upgrade in form of a stronger PIAT is a bad idea? Unit really looses it point later game. It's a good moment to touch this problem.

PS: For QoL i would make vet1 Tommy sight bonus make a passive ability visible in a unit menu bar. Pyrotechnic sight should be removed or make it temporary, stationary bonus which at least require more micro to activate.

PS: can we consider a new vet 1 ability for Tank Hunter Section? And why an extra weapon upgrade in form of a stronger PIAT is a bad idea? Unit really looses it point later game. It's a good moment to touch this problem.

For Tank Hunter sections, it's a great idea.

Imo there is an issue that should be taken more seriously:

The healing see to much to available to every squad while with new healing option the sight bonuses and the ability to call smoke and arty might also prove problematic especially with Heavy gammon bomb that will allow IS blob to walk to T4 truck smoke them and demolish them with HGB.

so I proposed this:

Tank Hunter Infantry Section
...
Suggestions:

Replace AT grenade with heavy Gammon bomb.
HGB redesign now a homing AT weapon that does not cause engine damage only temperate blind, friendly damage reduced. Imo this change should also apply to hammer HGB since mainline infatry should not have access to "demolition charges". THIF could get an extra 2-5 range on their HGB if hammer is unlocked. This change should also apply to all weapon of the same type (penal/cav R...), I shot snare where removed from infatry for a reason. The damage will be enough to keep light vehicles away and they can still contribute vs heavier armored vehicles.

....

On another issue.
Is Croc going to stay at CP9?