State of the Sturmtiger

My suggestion for ST would be:
1) Move to different commander like over-watch or breakthrough, the unit has poor synergy with other commander abilities like commanders/Heat rounds.

2) Redesign unit to be allot more durable. It is supposed to go against enemy defenses yet it medium armor.

3) Redesign gun, instead of wiping machine it should do health damage vs AI targets, critical vs all targets devastated buildings.

In other words:
lower damage but also lower penalties vs cover/garrison (could even go down to 0)

Add critical effects like injured "drive/gunner", "shell shock" vs infatry/support weapon (lowering accuracy and ROF).

Add extra damage vs building similar to vs (emplacement).

I'd gladly take really wide damage and less OHK range and a modifier against structures than it's literally hit and miss performance right now. Hell, a +2mp per minute would provide more benifit that the sturmtiger does in its current state. It shiuld have simply had its AOE overhauled instead of its ranged gutted and its projectile changed to scatter and collide with objects AND its gun neutered.

imho it doesnt need buffs or nerfs, its need its elevation issue/bug fixed. sturmtiger shells tend to drop like 50% faster when shoot from/off/into an higher/lower position resulting into a miss. So if the map aint flatter then a farmside in the Netherlands its gonna miss.

now i have told the balance team plenty of times about this, but there wasnt anything done.

avre might also suffer from this issue

imho it doesnt need buffs or nerfs, its need its elevation issue/bug fixed. sturmtiger shells tend to drop like 50% faster when shoot from/off/into an higher/lower position resulting into a miss. So if the map aint flatter then a farmside in the Netherlands its gonna miss.

now i have told the balance team plenty of times about this, but there wasnt anything done.

avre might also suffer from this issue

They tried to fix it but it's not possible unless they make the shell terrain piercing again and that is a bad idea because of too much cheese.

AVRE also has this issue but it happens less often.

The unit suffers from a classic combo overnerf.

Iirc. the range was nerfed AND the ability to shoot through shotblockers was nerfed away.

Now it is absolutely garbage. An elevation adjustment will not make it useful again. People will still walk away from its shots.

Revert the changes to what it was. Nobody complained about the Sturmtiger from half a year ago. It had an effective range of 5m where it could shoot from the FOW and needed a spotting unit.

They tried to fix it but it's not possible unless they make the shell terrain piercing again and that is a bad idea because of too much cheese.

AVRE also has this issue but it happens less often.

cant they make it like the shell will always hit the middle of the cirkle like railway then? so then it could still collide with object and detonate but if there aint a object it will always be in the middle?

but yea im no code prof

now i have told the balance team plenty of times about this, but there wasnt anything done

The elevation and collision issue has been known for years. With the Commander Revamp Patch follow-up patches we've spent weeks trying to tweak it but it's impossible to get any positive results without deeper access to animations and core mechanics, which we do not have.

cant they make it like the shell will always hit the middle of the cirkle like railway then?

Accuracy for the shell was already set to 100% (or rather, scatter to 1). Doesn't work.

There are plenty of changes would make it more viable without messing with animations:

1) Revert the change that made it mutually exclusive with the KT.

2) Revamp or replace the vet 1 ability to not be total garbage. A Pfuss style flare or long range smoke shells would be great.

3) Return its world piercing property so the shell lands consistently where you aim it. Its range is no longer OP, nor is its lethal AOE.

4) Do away with the manual reload, or simply reduce its reload time significantly. It makes zero sense that it's the same as the AVRE which reloads automatically without getting slowed by 50% and has a turret.

5) Further reduce its veterancy requirements since it rarely gets to fire at anything besides low XP infantry/support teams.

Firing from the FoW is a problem for a unit that can nuke a medium tank.

I'm all for literalyl anything besides giving it that back.

The elevation and collision issue has been known for years. With the Commander Revamp Patch follow-up patches we've spent weeks trying to tweak it but it's impossible to get any positive results without deeper access to animations and core mechanics, which we do not have.



Accuracy for the shell was already set to 100% (or rather, scatter to 1). Doesn't work.

But thing is, it WORKED before. It was USABLE before. After the adjustments I haven't seen it once outside the initial week after patch, and even then there it was no threat. All it needed was a damage reorganization not a removal of literally every trait that made it usable ( as seen by previous attempts to rebalance the ST by making removing its piercing and its range, but back then it still hit like a truck and it was STILL a death sentence for the unit)
Now it's a big lumbering waste of fuel and pop thay shoots once over minute to, if it's lucky, kill a couple of models here and there. It's not going to put fear in blobs since you will see it coming and aiming and when it hits, even if the shell makes it to target, isn't going to do anything meaningful. even emplacements that can't flee from are safe because it doesn't deal enough damage to warrant its cost and micro even before factoring in brace.

You guys have done a great job taking useless units and making them viable, but the sturmtiger is a rare case where you did the absolute opposite and completely patched a useuable but niche unit right out of the game.
Consider that the sturmtiger also locks out the king tiger. Why would anyone ever chose the sturmtiger over a regular KT, let alone one that can call in arty and has HEAT SHELLS? It's not even attractive pick vs what is often regarded as an over priced hunk of garbage...

But thing is, it WORKED before. It was USABLE before. After the adjustments I haven't seen it once outside the initial week after patch, and even then there it was no threat. All it needed was a damage reorganization not a removal of literally every trait that made it usable ( as seen by previous attempts to rebalance the ST by making removing its piercing and its range, but back then it still hit like a truck and it was STILL a death sentence for the unit)
Now it's a big lumbering waste of fuel and pop thay shoots once over minute to, if it's lucky, kill a couple of models here and there. It's not going to put fear in blobs since you will see it coming and aiming and when it hits, even if the shell makes it to target, isn't going to do anything meaningful. even emplacements that can't flee from are safe because it doesn't deal enough damage to warrant its cost and micro even before factoring in brace.

You guys have done a great job taking useless units and making them viable, but the sturmtiger is a rare case where you did the absolute opposite and completely patched a useuable but niche unit right out of the game.
Consider that the sturmtiger also locks out the king tiger. Why would anyone ever chose the sturmtiger over a regular KT, let alone one that can call in arty and has HEAT SHELLS? It's not even attractive pick vs what is often regarded as an over priced hunk of garbage...

True. Considering they lowered the damage of both AVRE and ST it might be somewhat OK to bring back the terrain piercing shells. At least then it has something going for it and isn't just a 10x worse AVRE.

Firing from the FoW is a problem for a unit that can nuke a medium tank.

I'm all for literalyl anything besides giving it that back.

They already lowered the damage so it can't kill a full health medium tank anymore.

If it’s getting world piercing back, at least give it a 3-6 second cooldown after firing before it can start moving again.

They tried to fix it but it's not possible unless they make the shell terrain piercing again and that is a bad idea because of too much cheese.

AVRE also has this issue but it happens less often.

Just make the projectile spawn higher, It might look wonky but it will fix the issue.

I have no clue how to fix the ST. Everyone should be happy with a blob punisher, but at the same time how do you make it good against blobs without making it too good at just deleting single squads?

Model cap like mines? To me that looks too silly since it's a giant fucking rocket. I really don't know the answer

Churchill avre makes the sturmtiger look small in comparison and for roughly the same cost. I think allowing sturmtiger to fire a round faster but with a longer reload would make it more effective.

I have no clue how to fix the ST. Everyone should be happy with a blob punisher, but at the same time how do you make it good against blobs without making it too good at just deleting single squads?

Model cap like mines? To me that looks too silly since it's a giant fucking rocket. I really don't know the answer

No sillier than the same rocket smashing beside a group of infantry but hits a fence 2 feet in front of them so it does nothing. Or a mortar pit and it shrugging it off.
Cap models and make it pin if it's what's needed to do to make it actually usable. Because atm its not at all

Sturmtiger is imho okay, you just need to get a feeling about when and where you can use it and where you can't. You need a few rounds to get a feeling for its projectile behavior... then 90% of the times you know where a shot would miss or slightly undershoot.. and where it hits pinpoint accurate. And what sight-/shotblockers it can shoot through.

I would wish for 2 small improvements however: 1) replace vet 1 HE nade with a smoke nade and 2) slightly faster aim time

Sturmtiger is imho okay, you just need to get a feeling about when and where you can use it and where you can't. You need a few rounds to get a feeling for its projectile behavior... then 90% of the times you know where a shot would miss or slightly undershoot.. and where it hits pinpoint accurate. And what sight-/shotblockers it can shoot through.

I would wish for 2 small improvements however: 1) replace vet 1 HE nade with a smoke nade and 2) slightly faster aim time

only sensible post in this thread.
If you can't use the ST you need to get gud, and yeah, a smoke round would help a lot, also the range indicator is kinda buggy, but at vet3 you actually gain range and it becomes MUCH better to use and since it vets so fast you can get to vet3 relatively fast.

another great thing about the ST is the "terror" factor, in team games whenever a ST shows up everyone just insta retreat, so even when you don't shoot or miss you are still causing damage to the enemy, and the reload is relatively fast.

Abandon abuse is kinda of a problem though, you can easily abandon and call another ST or a KT and pretty much cheesy a game.

only sensible post in this thread.
If you can't use the ST you need to get gud,}

I find this kind of statements are out of place because the rest of the people posting here have not judged others in any way. Please take a open mind to others points of view

Even people that know how to use ST properly struggle to get the best of it, by the way "the best" of ST is only a shadow of what it was. It got simply overnerfed because it wiped too reliably and now with the proyectile nerf+damage nerf it got borderline worthless, im not saying its useless but it demands too much to get a little benefit, other units achieve the same with much less effort and resources, even OKW is themed for offensive superiority and ST is in theme about it, its a big FU-rocket and its doctrinal, it used to lock out KT aswell.

and yeah, a smoke round would help a lot,

I disagree with this, because a well used sturmtiger should require combined arms coordination, a LeIG or any other unit should provide smoke cover instead of multi prupose skills for ST, OKW theme is "the best at a single thing, but bad at synergies and contingency plans"

also the range indicator is kinda buggy, but at vet3 you actually gain range and it becomes MUCH better to use and since it vets so fast you can get to vet3 relatively fast.

saying MUCH better is an incomplete statement, it simply got a vet upgrade, of course its going to perform better, being a single shot unit, range and damage are the most fundamental stats.
People are suggesting default range upgrade because of this logic, but i think that simply returning the sightblocker penetrating proyectile should be enough, range is fine but its too accurate for that. Maybe a little faster launch windup aswell.

another great thing about the ST is the "terror" factor, ...

Basically sturmtiger is a terror tactics unit, its fair to point that out, but people that use it already know it and it does not add anything about it needing or not a buff.