State of Heavies

Jump back to quoted post15 Jan 2020, 06:24 AMCrecer13

T-34-76 shots bounce off Brummbar rear armor.

Jump back to quoted post15 Jan 2020, 15:31 PMdistrofio

Luchs shots bounce off t34 rear armor

Jump back to quoted post15 Jan 2020, 15:31 PMdistrofio

Luchs shots bounce off t34 rear armor

Jump back to quoted post15 Jan 2020, 06:24 AMCrecer13

T-34-76 shots bounce off Brummbar rear armor.

Jump back to quoted post15 Jan 2020, 15:37 PMKatitof

I like how you compare AI light tank to generalist medium, like you're trying to make a point, but without actually knowing what's happening.

Jump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 00:41 AMdistrofio

I like how you bit the bait. The only point i was trying to make is that the comparison i quoted was pointless. It was very effective...

Jump back to quoted post15 Jan 2020, 17:16 PMVipper

T-34/76 chance to penetrate on a rear Brumabr is 76% up to 95% at MID range

PIV chance to penetrate on a rear Churhcill is 61% up to 64% at MID range

Jump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 01:03 AMSkysTheLimit

I think comparing a Brumbarr rear armor bouncing t34 shots is pretty similar to a KV tank rear armor boucning P4 shots

Neither should be happening

Jump back to quoted post14 Jan 2020, 22:03 PMVipper

I brought this issue up a couple of year back

https://www.coh2.org/topic/68044/rear-armor-of-some-vehicles-needs-to-be-reduced

only to have to waste my time responding to the usual suspect.

The hood new is that it seem it get the attention eventually so some of the value have been lowered.

Jump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 01:03 AMSkysTheLimit

I think comparing a Brumbarr rear armor bouncing t34 shots is pretty similar to a KV tank rear armor boucning P4 shots

Neither should be happening



Thanks for the numbers. I hope I'm not making too much of an assumption here, but I think we can all agree these numbers should be close to if not 100%? Regardless of the combination of units?

Flanking with anything larger than a t70 should be rewarded imo

Jump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 01:41 AMdistrofio

A brumbarr hardly exposes his rear armor in normal combat, but t34s are able to overextend to get a rear hit and maybe a ram finish. Brumbarr poses no threat to t34. T34 are at least one or two tiers below brumbarr.
Those reasons justify the rear armor bounces.

KV on the other side is the lightest heavy tank, even when P4 have good pen, KV can outgun and kill Pz4 in 1v1. A rear armor hit is the only possible chance for a P4 to win the 1v1.

Id say there is a reason for P4 to get pen shots and no reason for t34 to do so.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jan 2020, 18:03 PMthedarkarmadillo

The KV-2 could probably afford to lose some ass armour but the other 2 are less of an issue imo. Not design wise, balance wise or least of all historically,not that the latter matters so much but as a factor it checks out

Jump back to quoted post18 Jan 2020, 21:19 PMSkysTheLimit

I'm not saying its a huge issue, my entire point is that I don't see a reason for ANY unit to deflect shots that hit its rear armor

You can qualify the scenarios however you like, all I'm saying is rear armor shouldn't deflect tank shots, no matter what the scenario. I dont really care whether one is "less of an issue", rear armor simply shouldn't be deflecting shots from anything larger than a t70 imo

Jump back to quoted post18 Jan 2020, 17:34 PMSkysTheLimit

A KV-8 poses no threat to p4. So therefore it should bounce p4 shots on the rear? I don't think so

Yeah of course a brumbarr shouldn't be exposing it's rear armor. That's the entire point. If you are showing your rear you deserve to suffer for it, regardless of what tank you are using

You can say a brum poses no threat to a t34, but if I'm diving my tank behind it then I'm exposing the t34 to other AT that is absolutely a threat to it. Same goes for any medium diving behind any other tank

Jump back to quoted post18 Jan 2020, 21:44 PMdistrofio

I said KV tanks, not only KV8. KV1 / KV2 are more than a threat to a Pz4.
Even those two last have high rear armor for a P4 to score pen shots.

Do not turn upside down my arguments and put words in my mouth, i said both things, a proper played brumbar will not show a rear shot to anything but T34s being so cheap are able to dive through hell and back to get a rear shot, even more if you certainly know that will pen.

Now you want to add another setup just to twist my wordings. Please abstain from that unless you really know what you do.
ATGs are always present in a normal skill game but you know very well that ATGs are the slowest, then brumbarrs and the fastest of them 3 is the t34, imagine taking a ATG everywhere you send your stupa just because some pesky t34, wich you cant hit nor damage is always going to get behind BECAUSE IT SCORES PEN SHOTS.

NONESENSE

Jump back to quoted post18 Jan 2020, 21:44 PMdistrofio

ATGs support but are nowhere neccesary to enable a LATEGAME AI SPECIALIST TANK...

Jump back to quoted post18 Jan 2020, 21:35 PMthedarkarmadillo

Well yes, but also no. You start like that and your still going to have whining because axis rear would have to be lower to accommodate the t34, which means even the T70 would have an alright chance.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jan 2020, 22:14 PMSkysTheLimit

Idk why you're talking about t34 speed? There's a reason AT guns have 60 range and tanks have 35

Jump back to quoted post18 Jan 2020, 22:43 PMdistrofio

Why the game includes snares? Did you ever notice that tanks are faster than footmen? Imagine a big F cannon (namely ATG) traversed by raw manpower? Do you understand that mobility is another aspect of units and is as important as every other one? Did you ever read a M36 vs panther thread? Do you know why they are not nerfed? Because they are both fast, that gives them their advantage.

Now aswer kindly to me, is T34 a slow tank like a KV1 or is it fast like a T70...
The answer will lead you to my point and why a T34 can pen the back of a brumbarr...

Jump back to quoted post18 Jan 2020, 17:34 PMSkysTheLimit

A KV-8 poses no threat to p4.