Is Tiger/Ace an AI or AT tank?
15 Nov 2019, 01:54 AM
#41
Posts: 785
The last thing we need to be doing right now is buffing heavy tanks
15 Nov 2019, 01:55 AM
#42
Posts: 1794
The last thing we need to be doing right now is buffing heavy tanks
I call it a fix in making tiger turret tracking more in line with its level
15 Nov 2019, 02:00 AM
#43
Posts: 1794
The tiger is probably the most consistent heavy tank. It has stead damage output, good armour and great health. But at the heart its an overgrown p4, use it like one and profit. You still need to support your armour, no matter what the armour is.
Axis stock armour is more durable than allied stock armour and allied doctrinal meat shields are more durable that their axis counterparts. It's not rocket science. The allied players are dedicating their doctrine to having something that can take punishment while the axis factions have that luxury by default.
In your comparison of jackson/ Pershing vs panther/ tiger did you happen to factor in health? Or just offensive stats? What about armour?
I disagree its a p4. I guess here lies in old/misjudged mindset. I would love if it has the same vet bonus p4 gets though.
I stand by my brumba-fant example. Painfully slow turret is not supporting for its level.
Like i said, tigers seen a long period of unused, and it dropped back to under used in last week games and i wonder if this week games we see more tigers again.
Yes i consider everything from range, pen, speed, crew repairs, abilities, vet bonus, target size. It just felt usf combo is clearly better
15 Nov 2019, 02:09 AM
#44
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
I disagree its a p4. I guess here lies in old/misjudged mindset. I would love if it has the same vet bonus p4 gets though.
I stand by my brumba-fant example. Painfully slow turret is not supporting for its level.
Like i said, tigers seen a long period of unused, and it dropped back to under used in last week games and i wonder if this week games we see more tigers again.
Yes i consider everything from range, pen, speed, crew repairs, abilities, vet bonus, target size. It just felt usf combo is clearly better
Are you sure you're playing the same game?
15 Nov 2019, 02:13 AM
#45
Posts: 1794
I guess we ask ourselves, is tiger painfully slow turret, fairly justified by its rof?
In fact i rather lose its rof vet and distribute them to turret and pen, making it more comprehensive package.
Rof seems a liability now, something like armor vet.
I mean it's mostly cited hp armor etc, these exists on allies heavy too. Pershing is just 1 less hit off, but much harder to hit and better in AI and AT.
And allies we know, counter the armorhp stats better.
In fact i rather lose its rof vet and distribute them to turret and pen, making it more comprehensive package.
Rof seems a liability now, something like armor vet.
I mean it's mostly cited hp armor etc, these exists on allies heavy too. Pershing is just 1 less hit off, but much harder to hit and better in AI and AT.
And allies we know, counter the armorhp stats better.
15 Nov 2019, 02:14 AM
#46
Posts: 1794
Are you sure you're playing the same game?
Yes, why you say that?
Brumbafant sounds fair, and if we use tiger as such, i guess it works. But allies do have good AI heavy
15 Nov 2019, 02:22 AM
#47
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Yes, why you say that?
Brumbafant sounds fair, and if we use tiger as such, i guess it works. But allies do have good AI heavy
Historically, in game sense, heavies were always the most useful in 1v1, depending on meta on 2v2 and less useful on 4v4. It's just a matter of unit volume, timing, counters available, etc.
Which is totally inverse to super heavies. Asking for any buffs or adjustments to heavies for teamgames atm, is like asking for buffs on super heavies because they are harder to use in 1v1.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
15 Nov 2019, 02:35 AM
#48
Posts: 1794
True is a challenge not to change too much now.
But since looking at tiger, i felt its underpowered, just cost ineffective now..a theme of wehr units now, no?
I just compare Pershing stats, and imo it is simply superior to tiger. Even its rof started slower but at vet, beats out tiger.
Add to usf having better counter to tiger than wehr..
Hence we have a problem.
But since looking at tiger, i felt its underpowered, just cost ineffective now..a theme of wehr units now, no?
I just compare Pershing stats, and imo it is simply superior to tiger. Even its rof started slower but at vet, beats out tiger.
Add to usf having better counter to tiger than wehr..
Hence we have a problem.
15 Nov 2019, 02:41 AM
#49
Posts: 5279
Pershing has less health than a Tiger and doesn't get any ROF buffs till vet 3(where it gets a huge 50%)
To compare to a Pershing the tiger is basicly the same thing but with more points in durability than mobility and I see far more tigers in team games than I do Pershings because of that.
To compare to a Pershing the tiger is basicly the same thing but with more points in durability than mobility and I see far more tigers in team games than I do Pershings because of that.
#stalinwept
15 Nov 2019, 02:43 AM
#50
Posts: 1794
Usf player complaint they don't have a heavy unit. I say compare Pershing and Tiger now. There's your heavy unit.
Tiger may look bigger graphically, but tiny Pershing is a clearly better unit, can we agre here?
Tiger may look bigger graphically, but tiny Pershing is a clearly better unit, can we agre here?
15 Nov 2019, 02:48 AM
#51
Posts: 1794
Pershing has less health than a Tiger and doesn't get any ROF buffs till vet 3(where it gets a huge 50%)
To compare to a Pershing the tiger is basicly the same thing but with more points in durability than mobility and I see far more tigers in team games than I do Pershings because of that.
Tiger can last 1 more hit. i don't think it is considered that durable. When you think how slow, how large target size, how more popcap, how wehr don't have 60td...it just can't reconcile Wehr unit cost effective issues.
Imo why more tiger than Pershing? Cost effective problems for Wehr. And tiger looks cooler. A lot of usf players underestimated the pershing. Even i did, before looking deeper. Now i will use more Pershing.
To think i practice so much baby sit my tiger, i can do better easier with Pershing when i play usf, and i expect to get better results with it.
15 Nov 2019, 03:03 AM
#52
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Pershing RoF bonus at vet 3 got reduced to 30% if I'm not mistaken.
15 Nov 2019, 03:25 AM
#53
Posts: 5279
Tiger can last 1 more hit. i don't think it is considered that durable. When you think how slow, how large target size, how more popcap, how wehr don't have 60td...it just can't reconcile Wehr unit cost effective issues.
Imo why more tiger than Pershing? Cost effective problems for Wehr. And tiger looks cooler. A lot of usf players underestimated the pershing. Even i did, before looking deeper. Now i will use more Pershing.
To think i practice so much baby sit my tiger, i can do better easier with Pershing when i play usf, and i expect to get better results with it.
1 hit is a substantial bonus. What would kill a Pershing the tiger can limp away from.
Pershing RoF bonus at vet 3 got reduced to 30% if I'm not mistaken.
did it? Thanks for the correction. Isn't that about the same bonus all tanks get then at that point only later?
#stalinwept
15 Nov 2019, 03:27 AM
#54
Posts: 1794
Still pretty op, slightly behind tiger much hyped rof and slightly better than similarly hyped panther rof. when you add in its other gun stats, Pershing is clearly a superior tiger.
Glad we are getting somewhere with this digging. It is easy to wave off using old mindset and even visual misperceptions.
Tiger needs help for its cost. Wehr needs help for their late game cost efficiency. Same theme we are seeing
Glad we are getting somewhere with this digging. It is easy to wave off using old mindset and even visual misperceptions.
Tiger needs help for its cost. Wehr needs help for their late game cost efficiency. Same theme we are seeing
15 Nov 2019, 03:35 AM
#55
Posts: 1794
1 hit is a substantial bonus. What would kill a Pershing the tiger can limp away from.
If it can hit a Pershing. Tiger is simply too slow to compensate for that 1 hit, imo. Especially against 60TD and large target size.
I believe even with blitz, Pershing is still faster. Lol.
I mean i like to accept the old armorhp design, but reality they matter little now.
Another example, if you say panther is compensated from 60td by its hp,i cannot argue that specifically.
But for Tiger hp, its not a strong standings. Im thinking maybe we standardized all Tiger to 1280hp, that will make durability more true
15 Nov 2019, 05:32 AM
#56
Posts: 789
Everyone: support your units. Counters should, well, counter.
Mr Game: Yes yes you are right buff Tiger!
Ok
Mr Game: Yes yes you are right buff Tiger!
Ok
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
15 Nov 2019, 05:40 AM
#57
Posts: 66
Jezus christ, whats mrgame2 the gonna post tomorrow? Maxim>MG42 OP pls nerf or Cromwell to OP?
Give those Rear Echelon some love......
15 Nov 2019, 05:50 AM
#58
Posts: 1289
Jezus christ, whats mrgame2 the gonna post tomorrow? Maxim>MG42 OP pls nerf or Cromwell to OP?
Dont give him inspiration. He will probably doe just that.
15 Nov 2019, 05:55 AM
#59
Posts: 1794
Mrgame2 simply show the inadequacy of tiger. I dont think he made bad comments. Comon guys, just look into the details and not assume tiger looks, or used to look good.
It seems hard to fathom that those big impressive looking axis tanks, could just be inadequate in games now..
It seems hard to fathom that those big impressive looking axis tanks, could just be inadequate in games now..
15 Nov 2019, 06:40 AM
#60
Posts: 5279
But you seem to be the only one that thinks it's inadequate. Perhaps you are using it improperly? It's not an invulnerable monster like propaganda would lead you to believe,a great and reliable tank, but not a solo game winner
#stalinwept
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