Is Tiger/Ace an AI or AT tank?

This will make it useful AT in late big games

With 50 range, good penetration, buffed accuracy/scatter and 3.75s reload at vet 3 on a pretty fast and durable chassis, the vetted Tiger I is literally one of the best late game anti-tank units in the game. On top of also annihilating infantry.

It has a disappointing high chance to bounce allies heavy though. And yes that slow turret lock is big hidden weakness in team games

It has a disappointing high chance to bounce allies heavy though. And yes that slow turret lock is big hidden weakness in team games

It has a decent chance to bounce on the IS-2 because everything has a decent chance to bounce on the IS-2. It's got a whopping 375 armour.

It has a disappointing high chance to bounce allies heavy though

So which ones exactly? Only the IS-2 (53% chance to pen) and ISU-152 (59% chance to pen) have a decent chance to bounce. All other Allied armor has only 260-290 armor, against which the Tiger and Tiger Ace have 77%-69% chance to pen.

And that is all at max range, while the Tiger I at high vet can quite comfortably move in closer with its high mobility and great ROF. The slow turret traverse is easily manageable by micromanaging traversing the hull.


At max range:
A vet 3 Tiger I versus a vet 3 IS-2 has a Time To Kill of ~33,75 seconds from the first shot.
A vet 3 IS-2 versus a vet 3 Tiger I has a Time To Kill of ~37,85 seconds from the first shot.
(Both TTKs do not include accuracy as it's too random to quantify)

The Tiger I actually has the advantage here, because it has significantly lower veterancy requirements than the IS-2, while also being statistically slightly better in a 1v1 situation.

How do i micromanage the hull? Tips?
IS2 has significantly better tank rotation of +33% while only slightly worse speed and accelaration 96%/94% of Tiger. At vet3, its turret is 50% faster than Tiger. As you said Tiger has 53% chance to pen IS2

Im not sure if these drawbacks can be covered by just the rof? How about each of these heavies vs med tanks. Wont IS2 clearly be better here?

Granted IS2 is more expensive than Tiger. But the Ace is even later with some nice abilities but same Tiger stats. It creates some break. We all agree Allies clearly counter Axis heavies better than Axis correspondingly. And so we are seeing Allies heavies are also better than Axis, no?

Oh have i also caught something? Not just the Tiger, checking turret rotation, seems like Allies get sweet vet on rotation and rof, like T34/85 starts behind panther to overcoming it on both vet. In past, Axis armor vet helps to balance things, but these days armor is pointless and i guess this compound my view of axis late game sufferings?

Back to Pershing, i think besides the slightly lower HP, i dont see why it cant counter Tiger with its speed and moving accruacy. Even comet is strong. I suffered to them on bigger maps. Do they outright kill my Ace? No, but i cant really fight back because of how slow Ace is.

How do i micromanage the hull? Tips?

Put your cursor on top of the tank, hold right mouse button and drag the appearing arrow in the desirable direction to let the tank traverse on the spot.

Im not sure if these drawbacks can be covered by just the rof?

I just showed you that it does, by calculating the TTK.

How about each of these heavies vs med tanks. Wont IS2 clearly be better here?

The armor difference (375 vs 300) is quite insignificant versus mediums who don't have much of a chance to pen either (~100-125 penetration). The Tiger I has quite a clear advantage because of its ROF and lower veterancy requirements. Assuming in both cases there is the proper support in place to prevent mediums from circling the heavy.

Can we at least give tiger vet bonus for its slow turret?

It is painful if it decides to switch target from infantry to tanks or from low value tanks to higher ones or when reversing the fook out of incoming TD?

This part is tough and unfair no? When it does not have benefits of extra micro.

I mean if its gun does 200 damage or 300 pen, then ok fair.

But it gets hard counter easier and we are paying similar resources and cp.

I guess we spotted another issues, easily forgotten after various patches and hidden in our too focus on 1v1 or the beliefs that Wehr tanks/units are already great.

I like how Tiger turret is only 26% faster than SU85 or KV2 ends up a massive 80% faster than it on vet or Churchill is 2.8x faster on vet. It is crazy Tiger KV2 both start out the same...

Slow tanks with slow turret against 60TD is bad late games

This part is tough and unfair no? When it does not have benefits of extra micro.

If you're unhappy with the Tiger you could always play Soviet instead.

If you're unhappy with the Tiger you could always play Soviet instead.

I like Wehr because as old man, who started in Coh1 and appreciate its design of weapon teams and tanks positioning. ie. too old to try new things.

But it does not mean there are no issues in current Wehr design. Im glad i can play enough and share them out.

I like Wehr because as old man, who started in Coh1 and appreciate its design of weapon teams and tanks positioning. ie. too old to try new things.

But it does not mean there are no issues in current Wehr design. Im glad i can play enough and share them out.

That's how all the other factions work too.

Try T2 Soviet.

But it has slow tank rotation and slow turret tracking. It feels closer to a fixed TD than generalist from this aspect.

Hence i suggest the same turret vet bonus many tanks get, to scale late games when more targets are on field.

But it has slow tank rotation and slow turret tracking. It feels closer to a fixed TD than generalist from this aspect.

Hence i suggest the same turret vet bonus many tanks get, to scale late games when more targets are on field.

Then get an Elefant instead.

I like Wehr because as old man, who started in Coh1 and appreciate its design of weapon teams and tanks positioning. ie. too old to try new things.

But it does not mean there are no issues in current Wehr design. Im glad i can play enough and share them out.

ok boomer

Tiger does both AT-AI really well. I find that it can consistently drop models per shot and due to its higher rof can quickly force squads off. It also has pretty solid dps so it does well in fighting other Heavies. Really the biggest issue for it is TDs. But those units are designed to counter heavy tank play.

Zaloga uses Wittmann's career to illustrate the point of the battlefield advantage. He credits Wittmann with "about 135" tanks destroyed, but points out that Wittmann achieved 120 of these in 1943, operating a Tiger I tank on the Eastern Front. Having advantages both in firepower and in armour, Tiger I was "nearly invulnerable in a frontal engagement" against any of the Soviet tanks of that time. Wittmann thus could "kill its opponents long before they were close enough to inflict damage on his tank".[23] Zaloga concludes: "Most of the 'tank aces' of World War II were simply lucky enough to have an invulnerable tank with a powerful gun"

Interesting, I thought Zaloga was more of a commie/Allied tank lover.

From what I've seen or heard he mostly bashes the Germans.

Got any books I can read on the Tiger?

I'm mostly interested in memoirs like those of Otto Carius and von Rosen.

Tiger does both AT-AI really well. I find that it can consistently drop models per shot and due to its higher rof can quickly force squads off. It also has pretty solid dps so it does well in fighting other Heavies. Really the biggest issue for it is TDs. But those units are designed to counter heavy tank play.

Yes of course the 60td has been a gripe since they started. We all in agreement allies are better fighting heavy then the other way round.

Since im been practicing tiger(ace), i realising allies may most probably have the better heavy/callins too. Damning combo.

Tiger gun may work fine in smaller 1v1 but in bigger team games, its super slow tracking, combine with lower pen, is wanting. This is a fresh perspective i give from a lower level player. Its rof also comes in vet2 and it isnt the fastest anyway. There are little supporting evidence to require heavy micro and lack of vet.

I believe its another unit leftover in old wehr is gold mindset.

Even sanders ttk is2 vs tiger example dont take in chance to pen, no? At a low 50-50 chance, is tiger gun that good? If you can't aim, what's use of rof?

If anything, tiger feels closer to a brumba-fant. Better AI than AT. Eaiser to counter than is2.

Something like pershing is even better AI, and has enough similar stats to outperform tiger at AT. It even got a hp buff recently and 'high' tiger hp becomes less good reasoning.

Jackson + Pershing or panther + tiger. Hmm, i say again, allies are better, especially once late game vet bonus applies

Interesting, I thought Zaloga was more of a commie/Allied tank lover.

From what I've seen or heard he mostly bashes the Germans.

Got any books I can read on the Tiger?

I'm mostly interested in memoirs like those of Otto Carius and von Rosen.

Lol sorry, i got that from wiki.

Yes of course the 60td has been a gripe since they started. We all in agreement allies are better fighting heavy then the other way round.

Since im been practicing tiger(ace), i realising allies may most probably have the better heavy/callins too. Damning combo.

Tiger gun may work fine in smaller 1v1 but in bigger team games, its super slow tracking, combine with lower pen, is wanting. This is a fresh perspective i give from a lower level player. Its rof also comes in vet2 and it isnt the fastest anyway. There are little supporting evidence to require heavy micro and lack of vet.

I believe its another unit leftover in old wehr is gold mindset.

Even sanders ttk is2 vs tiger example dont take in chance to pen, no? At a low 50-50 chance, is tiger gun that good? If you can't aim, what's use of rof?

If anything, tiger feels closer to a brumba-fant. Better AI than AT. Eaiser to counter than is2.

Something like pershing is even better AI, and has enough similar stats to outperform tiger at AT. It even got a hp buff recently and 'high' tiger hp becomes less good reasoning.

Jackson + Pershing or panther + tiger. Hmm, i say again, allies are better, especially once late game vet bonus applies

The tiger is probably the most consistent heavy tank. It has stead damage output, good armour and great health. But at the heart its an overgrown p4, use it like one and profit. You still need to support your armour, no matter what the armour is.

Axis stock armour is more durable than allied stock armour and allied doctrinal meat shields are more durable that their axis counterparts. It's not rocket science. The allied players are dedicating their doctrine to having something that can take punishment while the axis factions have that luxury by default.

In your comparison of jackson/ Pershing vs panther/ tiger did you happen to factor in health? Or just offensive stats? What about armour?

Hey guys, i just realized remember, tigers weren't use for a long period before the aoe/cp changes. In fact i started trying tiger after watching earlier wc19 games, where it seems fun to micro a tank with AI. But last week games, we see less tigers already.

I guess we all sub consciously knew tiger has a little too much short comings, which imo mine stated here could be of help.