Is Tiger/Ace an AI or AT tank?
Posts: 1794
For benefit of new readers. We think we have found the issue. Tiger turret tracking is too slow and it does not vet up. Suggestion is to give it a vet3 bonus, same as other tanks. It has slow tank rotation and slow turret tracking. It feels closer to a fixed TD than generalist from this aspect. When you compare to say IS2, Pershing, Comet, KV2, Churchill. These tanks turrets can run rings around Tiger in team games and bigger maps. Again, story of Wehr, you need heavier Tiger micro to face its turret correctly, hence a bit unfair, underperforming for its costs.
EDIT2: Pershing is clearly better than Tiger, comparing their stats and their faction composition. Please help Tiger.
I been practicing Ace. And found it is quite poor tank in a tank sense. Whenever my oppo see me use it, they will go comet or pershing. And boy do those 2 tanks counter Ace well. I even find my Ace shell frickin bounce! Imo Ace needs pen to be 260 same as panther for start.
Then su85/atg seems to keep penetrating more often than not. Like 2/3 shots will hit and boy did i suffer health loss easier than was expecting.
Of its AI gun seems ok, i noticed to wipe infantry, it needs at least 4 shots if those allies scum dont retreat. In between them, at least it hit their hp more than say p4.
Posts: 1794
Posts: 1794
Imo vet2 bonus give ace 10% armor and +10 pen
Posts: 5279
AT guns have the same pen they always have (or at least for ages) and the armour of the tiger hasn't changed in a dog's age either. ~2/3 chance to pen.
The tiger ace is a normal tiger with a bit of extra flare, but it's still a normal tiger.
Posts: 1794
Of course double jacksons and p47 made my ace cry hard. Somehow its turret is too slow to get a lock on rushing jackson,pershing and comet.
Anyway i think we should make its pen 260 for a start and have the armor bonus at vet3. To give it a bit more flare. I think it needs most cp resources? I think it will be fun to have a real hero unit.
Posts: 5279
Posts: 1794
Pretty weird to see it bounced Churchill and kv tanks. Against faster smaller pershing, comet, it struggles.
It cant flank for rear armor.
Even if its rof is faster, how much faster to compensate low pen? Say its normal shot takes (pulled from thin air, based on experience) 3s, and is2 takes 3.5s, i dont think it is good.
Posts: 1794
Does its rof compensate for such deficiencies? Maybe if it has 375 frontal armor?
Pen buff plz.
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Whenever my oppo see me use it, they will go comet or pershing. And boy do those 2 tanks counter Ace well
The Tiger Ace has 1280 health, 240/220/200 penetration, 300 armor and 5.25s reload.
And 50 range at vet 2.
The Comet has 800 health, 210/190/170 penetration, 290 armor and 6.4s reload.
The Pershing has 960 health, 260/240/220 penetration, 270 armor and 6.75s reload.
These two units do not counter the Ace at all. If they do, the problem is player related.
Posts: 65
You can try playing usf or ukf and counter ACE with pershing or comet then you will get another answer.
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
The combination of the bonus sight with Spearhead and the extended range at vet 2 is extremely powerful and makes the Ace an absolute killing machine against both infantry and tanks. You can get to vet 2 quickly, because the Tiger Ace has 1 star of prevet. Combine this with the extra health and crit repair and you can keep allot of pressure on the opponent.
If your Tiger Ace gets countered by a Pershing or Comets, you should post a replay and go to strategy desk, because it sounds like you're not supporting it sufficiently.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
All the other checkpoints are met tho.
Posts: 1794
Rof is good but if you cant target those slimey fast ones, it don't matter.
Comet with tank commander gets moving accuracy too.
I guess this is how i am suffering. My ace gotta keep back tracking and praying its turret does something. And when it did, i saw times it bounced.
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
I've gotta say, I'm incredibly disappointed that we don't see here "AEC trolls it" argument.
All the other checkpoints are met tho.
I fear you might be correct, I can't read this thread without trololo song in my head.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
How about their speed and turret tracking.
It was slower then IS-2.
It is slower then IS-2 in game.
All heavies turrets rotate slow, you're not supposed to instantly delete meds that circled you.
Rof is good but if you cant target those slimey fast ones, it don't matter.
Learn to support your units.
If you expect a singular unit to take whole army of your opponent and come on top, go play sins of solar empire rebellion and get yourself a titan.
Comet with tank commander gets moving accuracy too.
So?
I guess this is how i am suffering. My ace gotta keep back tracking and praying its turret does something. And when it did, i saw times it bounced.
You're suffering, because you're bad player, with bad micro skills and are incapable of not over-extending and actually supporting your units with other units properly.
Everything else is excuses.
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Comet with tank commander gets moving accuracy too
Tank Commander upgrade gives +10% accuracy, which is then halved when on the move (0.5 moving accuracy multiplier). A +5% accuracy advantage is hardly worth mentioning.
The reason the Comet is a bit better on the move than the Ace is because of slightly higher base accuracy (but only until the Ace gets vet 2) and a target size advantage (Comet's 22 TS vs the Ace's 26 TS).
The Comet's manoeuvrability advantage is mostly diminished by the Ace's higher health, higher chance to bounce and higher ROF. And higher range and sight at vet 2 with Spearhead mode. And by denying flanks by supporting it with snares, mines, ATGs, Panzershrecks or another tank.
Posts: 177
It is true that as allied player facing the axis heavies you have access to more 'harder' counters in form of dedicated TDs that come quicker than t4 panther for ostheer, but this again is more about the ostheer design currently being shit against heavies in competitive 1v1 setup than the allied counterparts being OP.
Also what can make the IS2 vs P6 comparison more in favour for IS2 is that the meta compositions of the armies favour heavily soviet: Zis guns & IS2 beat P6 & T3. In vacuum the Tiger wins the IS2.
Posts: 1794
For tiger most hyped rof, if we add in turret rotation and chance to pen, can we say its still strong? Rof is good if you shoot infantry or unusually static tanks...
Suggestions is to buff turret by some % on vet3. This will make it useful AT in late big games.
Tbh, i dont see why pen can be improved when allies have more tanks with heavy armor and wehr don't have a 60TD of crazy pen values
Posts: 1794
I guess why i find is2 more comprehensive heavy than tiger since the bonus is more rounded
Posts: 3260
Livestreams
32 | |||||
6 | |||||
2 | |||||
2 |
Ladders Top 10
-
#Steam AliasWL%Streak
- 1.829222.789+35
- 2.34957.860+14
- 3.587233.716+3
- 4.1095612.641+19
- 5.883398.689+5
- 6.280162.633+8
- 7.998646.607+2
- 8.379114.769+1
- 9.300113.726-1
- 10.717439.620+1
Replay highlight
- cblanco ★
- 보드카 중대
- VonManteuffel
- Heartless Jäger
Board Info
3 posts in the last week
23 posts in the last month
Welcome our newest member, sunwininternational
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM